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  #11  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:00 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Default Turk Mausers

I picked up these 2 Turk Mausers from Century in probably 2002 or so? One was full price ($40 if I recall, I bought 5 at that price) and one was a "U-Fixem" for $12 or $15. This was maybe my first Century purchase so I had to see what $12 got. It met, and exceeded the description, and was missing some small parts, I am sure they cost more than $20 to get! But I still have less than $40 in it.
Metal was just degreased (I bought a parts washer from Harbor Freight the week after getting these, go figure...), and the bores look great, for what they are.
Stocks were cleaned with Purple Power cut with water, and a scrubby sponge, a few sessions. Then straight BLO rubbed in, a few coats, each rub in, sit 30-60 min, wipe dry, repeat in a day. I did not use a mix of BLO/Turpentine at that time; I recently switched to that for my first few coats.
I got them out this weekend and removed all the stock metal, MEK was used to remove dried BLO and Cosmoline and whatever had built up. I soaked a scrap of felt in the MEK and scrubbed the metal, it quickly removed everything that didn't belong. I oiled all the metal parts (my standard is put a few drops of a thick gun oil, usually Hoppes or similar) on a clean patch and wipe all the metal with it. The stocks were a bit dry so I gave them a BLO/Turpentine scrub (see Aladinbama's video), then 2 coats of BLO rubbed in......
The pics in the sun seem to even out the wood; out of the sunlight one of the stocks (the bottom one in the pictures) has a really defined tiger stripe pattern. If I recall the slings came with them from Century, they are different from each other, and from my research they are probably authentic, as the Turks used anything.
I think the top one (mismatched handguard) is the U-Fixem, but I may be wrong.
Here are some pics.
JH
[IMG]DSC_3963 - Copy by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]DSC_3964 - Copy by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]DSC_3971 by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:31 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Default Commercial stock experiment

I heard on Rimfire Central about some using Meguiars Scratch X (A car polish, available at Wal-Mart or auto parts stores) to polish wood, and then using Howards Feed and Wax (Lowes? Hardware stores?), it is a wood polish containing beeswax and some citrus stuff.
I have a Ruger 10/22, the standard carbine. I used the Scratch-X to polish the wood, it took maybe 5-10 minutes, it became very smooth and shin and did not remove the stain. I wiped it clean then applied the Feed and Wax. A few coats and it had a nice, deep shine.
I then dug out a CZ452, it went even quicker as the wood is better quality.
I would not do this to a Milsurp stock, but I have seen some USAF Presentation M1 Garands that looked this shiny.
The Ruger is the top, I have added tech Sights, QD swivels, an extended mag release, and polished inside the receiver, the bolt, and did a trigger shim job. I had a muzzle brake laying around, probably does nothing; and I added the recoil pad to tame the shoulder breaking recoil, and add to the LOP.
The middle is a Soviet TOZ 78, made by TULA. One of the best rimfires ever, built like a truck but shoots with the CZ and then some. It has a Burris 4x on it currently, I do not care for the revolving leaf sight. I have done nothing to this stock, and it is showing wear (it appears to be beech with a clear finish, no stain, and a black painted forend.
The bottom is a CZ452 Trainer. The stock is Beeck, but well made and stained. It received the Scratch-X/Feed and Wax treatment. It has had BRNO aperture sights and an Anschutz aperture added, and I shimmed the trigger and replaced the spring like so many do.
This and the Ruger had the polish and wax done probably 18 months ago, and nothing since (other than a bunch of range time); I thnk they may need a touch up of wax.
I like how these came out, especially for the cost of the 2 bottles of polish and wax, and the time it took. The finish looks much like a few coats of polyurethane, and has been pretty durable considering the use these get, Zvenoson included. I have no milsurps that need a treatment like this, but maybe some of you will find this of use.
If you decide to pursue this, I suggest a bit of research; some of the gunstock experts at Rimfire Central claim these products are made for cars (they are) and may (not "will") cause some damage to the wood or finish. I figured my Ruger stock is not especially valuable, and there is some disagreement as to the risk. Many have used this method on non-milsurps on that and other forums from what I have seen. Probably too much bling for a milsurp anyway; at least none of mine need this!
Here are the pics. I should have put the bolts in...
JH
[IMG]DSC_4006 by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]DSC_4005 by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2015, 09:49 AM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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I posted 2 Mosin Nagant M1891s on the CMP Bolt Action forum ( http://forums.thecmp.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=381 )and some users had some questions, so I answered here. On these 1891s I used Renaissance Wax on the metal.

Using wax on metal is new to me, but here is what I did. On the rifles I detail stripped them and performed a good cleaning (I have owned these 2 for about 10 years so they were already degreased and cleaned, I used my standard cleaning procedures listed in this thread when I got them).
I have read about wax as a firearm preservative, more in museum settings, but these two are far from range guns. Also the Tula, missing much of the blueing, needed to have a coat of oil to keep it from rusting. I did some research and found that wax is popular for this use, and saw a few different articles (didn't keep any, I just googled them). Wax is also easily removed, so it is non-invasive, one of my collecting rules. Turtle paste wax (the can from walmart in the car section!) is popular in museums, as is Renaissance brand wax ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax ). I bought the Renaissance wax on eBay, it was pretty cheap, under $20 if I recall for a small can that will last for years. I used it on a few knives and really liked the results, so these M91s were next. Mine came with directions, google them for the website, plenty of info. I rubbed it on with my fingers, a small amount melts in your hands and goes a long way. I rubbed it in, as it says it is also a polish, and you can easily tell where the metal was dry and it soaked in (over the blueing mostly). I rubbed it in, let it dry (just like car wax) and buffed with a t-shirt. I repeated, for a total of 2 coats; 2 on some parts. It buffs well, not glossy, but they say you can build it up. I notice a nice semi-matte sheen, very pleasant on a milsurp. My goal was a nice looking, non-pimp finish that will protect as well as oil, and it seems to be made for that. It has been 4 or so days since I applied the wax, and it has been raining daily, and these have been in the open shop, so if they were not waxed or oiled, rust would have formed. I "seems" to allow handling without rusting better than my standard coat of Hoppes or other thick gun oil, as best I can tell after 4 days!
I plan to apply Renaissance wax on a "range gun" to see what effect shooting (heat) will have, these are not them!
Renaissance wax may be used on wood as well according to the directions, but that is probably best for a display piece only, I do not have enough experience with it yet. I will post some pics later of a few Renaissance wax experiments I have done with wood. They look good, but I don't think (at this time) that using it on Milsurp Stocks is for my collection; a museum perhaps?

Regarding the wood, the Izhevsk (bottom of pic, with the spliced stock), I cleaned it and rubbed in a few coats of a 50/50 mix of BLO/Turpentine. Again, these had been cleaned and oiled 10 years ago, this was just a good refresh. Once that dried, I used Tom's 1/3 mix ( http://www.thegunstockdoctor.com/ ).

Anyway, once the stock had dried from the BLO/turp scrub (overnight) I used the 1/3 wax and rubbed on a coat, it is just like clear shoe polish (do not substitute!!!), rub it on, let it dry (45 minutes or so) then buff it off with a cloth (old t-shirt). I let that harden overnight, then repeat; 2-3 coats is usually fine (the M91 got 3), but I have a carbine that kept looking better so I used about 8 or so coats. This is an authentic milsurp finish, again keeping with MY collecting goals.
Why didn't I use the 1/3 wax on the Tula? The stock has been beat to Siberia and back, there is not one square inch without 10 dents. My experience with the wax is that it adds a nice sheen, but this stock is sheen-less! It looks fine as-is with just BLO.
By the way, you can use the wax as the only finish (instead of a top coat for BLO or Tung or whatever), in post #1 of this thread see my CMP Daisy 853. It was bone dry when I got it so I cleaned it a bit then used a few coats of 1/3 mix only.

Below are few closeups of the M1891 stocks.
1. Bottom of Izhevsk, metal has 2 coats of Renaissance wax, stock has a few coats of Tom's 1/3. Note stamps are sharp.
[IMG]DSC_4203 by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
2. Izhevsk. The last coat of BLO was applied maybe 4 days before this picture, so I expect the shine to dull a little more as it cures.
[IMG]DSC_4206 by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
3. Tula, metal has Renaissance, stock is just BLO. Note that it has "a few dents and gouges"..... It's a nice piece of wood, in another world it would be interesting to sand it smooth and see...... but again, not how I collect! I do wonder how it looked when new. It seems to have a lot to say now.
[IMG]DSC_4183 by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
4. The Tula surprised me, it has remnants of the Soviet era cartouche. I have not seen any other stamps yet, but I'm sure there some hiding.
[IMG]DSC_4182cartouche by MrJHassard, on Flickr[/IMG]
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2015, 05:44 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Random notes about stock work
My approach to stocks (milsurps) is middle of the road. Some believe only light cleaning (maybe a damp rag, or a lightly oiled rag) is all they ever should receive and any more is "bubba-izing", or "restoring". Others feel that unless it is a documented museum piece, known to have been carried by someone important, as they made millions then yours won't ever be "collectible" so do what you want.
I may bring up my thoughts on this someday, until then, my rifles are average shooters (mostly); so I try to research what was "original" and keep true to that but I want to preserve them, make them look better, and shoot them. I look for and preserve cartouches, as well as any markings (initials, whatever).
Many steam out dents; I have not done this much, am no expert in it, and plan to get some stocks to do this on but so far I have not needed to do so. For example, look at the 1915 manufactured Tula M91 stock in post #13 (link in that post to more pictures of it). Every square inch has dents and gouges yet the wood is beautiful. Note the 1920s Soviet Cartouche I found after cleaning. I would like to try to steam/sand it smooth to see it in the original form, but it is 100 years old and M91s are rather rare, compared to the run-of-the-mill 91/30, so I just cleaned and oiled it.
Sandpaper: This is removing wood. Like cleaning, and stripping, I prefer to always start with the least intrusive and get more aggressive only if needed. So, I have rarely used sandpaper on a stock. If the grain was raised after cleaning/stripping, then I will usually try scotchbrite/steel wool first; if that doesn't work then sandpaper it is (again, if I think the rifle is more collectible I may just leave the grain raised; you can not undo it.) In this thread, the SKS (M59/66) is the only stock I used sandpaper on. I sanded it using one of the foam sponge sanding blocks Lowes and Harbor Freight sell. Tip: Always sand with a sanding block. A 2x4 cut to a handy size (2 inches or so is great, or any scrap block of wood. This keeps from rounding edges and keeps flat areas flat; you can not be as precise with your hands. You can be creative and use dowels and sockets for finger grooves, and of course your hands where they taper and other odd areas, but again, in 20 years and 50-75 milsurps I pay have 30 minutes total sanding time. You can not put that wood back.
I have heard of many people who rub in the first few coats of oil using sandpaper; I have not tried this and have no comments!
More to follow
JH
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2015, 05:46 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Steel Wool: Many rub oil in by hand, and I generally do on the last few coats, but I, and many, use steel wool to rub the oil in. I believe it helps the oil penetrate better, it does seem to dry wilh a more even sheen than when I just use my hand. Who knows, try it an see for yourself. I used to just use fine steel wool (0000 or 0000000000 or whatever I could find at Lowes/HD), but a year or three ago I read on some forum that most steel wool comes from China. The argument was that it was considerably more brittle wire, and thus disintegrates faster, and the smaller particles embed in the wood more than America steel wool. Yeah, whatever; I figured this was just some diehard good old boy-ism! (Don't misinterpret my sarcasm, I am patriotic, but the world is globalizing; a topic for another place....). Anyway, I looked at the fine print and sure enough my steel wool was from China. Whatever; the next time I needed some I looked at a few places until I found some made in the US, and did a test. It was instantly apparent to me that the American steel wool was tougher and less brittle than the Chinese. That may not have any effect on some jobs for steel wool (such as bomb making....; ok bad joke...) but I could easily see that the Chinese steel wool broken into smaller pieces and thus was dirtier. I assume it is embedding in the wood, but unlike the post I read I have not seen any issues of rust. I did find that my use of steel wool, pretty vigorous scrubbing in crevices and whatever showed the American steel wool to work much better in working the oil into the wood and was much less dirty (the Chines seems to grind down into grime (tiny pieces of steel!) more. In the past few months I have done some looking and I have been unable to find US made steel wool. Lowes sells Rhodes America brand, look closely, it is not from America. Again, I am not complaining about the globalization of products, and the associated changes, but this item performed different for me. Regarding the size, more zeroes means finer, like a higher number sandpaper if finer. So if you try steel wool (and I suggest you do, it is what, $3), get 4-0 up to 6-0. 3-0 is probably too course, and above that is too fine. But you probably won't hurt anything with "the wrong one), it just may take longer. Glad I read that about the American steel wool, see below!
Scotchbrite: I have read about people using scotchbrite instead of steel wool, but as I had plenty I never found the need to try it. I often use a scotchbrite sponge when cleaning, but not for oil application. I picked up some green scotchbrite (somewhere you can look up to see what color scotchbrite equates to 0000 or 000000 steel wool, but most forums seem to talk about green. Dollar tree has a 4-pack of green "dollarbrite" in the kitchen area that seems pretty close to the name brand scotchbrite I have. I cut a small piece and soaked it in oil and used it for the last few stocks to apply oil, and it worked as well (to me) as the steel wool, so no more steel fool for me. There may be no difference but at least I know I am not embedding steel particles in the wood which may someday cause a problem.
More to follow
JH
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2015, 06:20 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Oil: I have tried PTO (pure tung oil) and I did not get good results. I have used BLO (generic from Lowes/HD) for 20 years and like the results. I tried Fornbys Tung Oil Finish about 10 years ago and it did not work any better than BLO, and it spoiled rapidly in the can. Additional research says the air causes it to polymerize (dry); many pour in smaller containers, and drop in marbles to take up air space. Too much work, I threw it out and went back to BLO (which also dries in the can, but over some years). It tried PTO by purchasing a container at Woodcrafters. Most swear by "Real Milk Paint Co.", so maybe there is a difference. But; the Woodcrafters store is local, and they had it. It is in a plastic bottle, so after use, squeeze it so there is no air then seal it; my container is still good after 3 years. But again, I do not find it looks as good to me as BLO; I can not describe why. Also I like the BLO smell.....
I use cheap BLO from WalMart or HD or Lowes. I do not use the "Linseed Oil Finish" from fornbys (I think others make those?) but I have seen some good results but not from me. I just look at the can and make sure it says "BLO", if it is a "BLO Finish" then it has other chemicals, maybe OK but not for me. I have found no real performance issues with any of the cheap BLOs from the mainstream stores.
Diluting Oil: For years I used it full strength, applying generously and wiping dry after 20-40 minutes (I have found no real issue in the "set time", at least 20 minutes, an hour at most. I have forgotten and panicked after 1-2 hours, never been an issue, but no improvement either. DO NOT let it dry when soaked!).
I have read about many diluting it; either the first few coats or all coats. I diluted with Mineral Spirits before and did not care for the results. But it did no harm, I just used full strength over it. After seeing Aladinbamas videos (Mr. Tom's 1/3 Mix) and reading CMP's article about an oil scrub, I bought some turpentine and mixed some with BLO (I eyeballed about a 50/50 mix). It clearly wooked well as a cleaner; I scrubbed a stock using scotchbrite and this mix then wiped dry and the paper towel was quite dirty. I have also begun using this mix for the first few coats on a newly cleaned stock; it seems to penetrate faster, and after wiping dry, it seems ready for the next coat sooner. But, I still use full strength BLO for the final few coats. It just seemed to look better?
How many coats? I have heard the "rule" of "one coat a day for a week, one a week for a month, then one a month for a year". Whatever! Me, I apply 1 coat a day (maybe 2 if it's drying fast!) and I may forget a day or three. But I apply a few coats, around 4 or so, then switch to full strength BLO, at least 2. The number depends entirely on the stock, and perhaps the weather? I oil until additional oiling does not look any different, or it looks "good". You can tell if it is too dry, so oil until it is not that. But always, always rub the oil in, let it sit, then wipe dry. I find that a second wipe after an hour or so will ensure a smoother result, as that second wipe will show you spots where there is oil leaching out; you want it smooth and even.
Fairtrimmers: I had a few criticising my use of Fairtrimmers, and/or claiming it does not do what it says. Feel free to not use it. I read about it, it sounded interesting, it had good reviews, it was invented by a fellow hobbyist (a big plus for me), and it was cheap, so I tried it. And I have re-ordered it several times when empty. I often use this as my first few coats of oil. It has thinners (mineral spirits is my guess from the smell) and secret ingredients (iced tea and eye of newt?) that allegedly accent the grain and cartouches. In my use I like the way it "seems" to accent the natural grain and imperfections and markings in the wood, and will continue to use it as such. I believe some use it as the only finish (it is a BLO based finish, like Fornbys finishes are BLO or PTO based), but as it costs a bit more than BLO I just use a few coats, then BLO for a few. If you are interested, PM me and I'll tell you more thoughts, but just buy some, I am sure you will find it useful.
Wax: Some say wax has no use on milsurps. Welllll, I read on a forum (so it has to be true) that Gunny's paste, or Finn Wax, or the stuff made by Tom's 1/3 mix, or the recipe you can cook up yourself, has been used, officially and unofficially, by armies for a few centuries, including SOME in the USMC. Sure, some of you will swear that it was never used, but how many of you were both old enough to serve with wood on the rifles, and serve in every unit..... Anyway, just like fairtrimmers I read about it, liked the reviews and pictures, and bought some. And bought more for gifts and replacements. It is an oil based finish; I found I could clean it, I can use straight (or diluted) BLO over it, and it seems to work well with all of the other things I have been using it. Why do I use it? Because it leaves a unique finish that is different from BLO. Why do some like PTO, or TruOil, because they are different. Tom's wax leaves a sheen that is different from BLO and others. Not better, but different.
I received a gift set with some metal polish and gun/knife wax (I think it is set from Flitz) so I plan to do some tests with it; I am sure it will be different from the Tom's wax.
Conclusions?
As you hopefully have seen my conclusion is that milsurps (USGI, or a variety like I have; I really need to clean up some of my USGI articles for this thread...) each have wood that responds differently, so I enjoy the variety, and try to look at the wood and imagine what finish, tint, sheen, whatever will accent that wood the most.
Occasionally I see pictures of a milsurp with a unique glow that makes me think that yo fully appreciate THAT rifle it must be picked up and rolled around in the light to see everything. That is my goal.
I have found few finishes that damage or are un-reversible, so that is good. I do find that some items, solutions whatever work "better", but that usually means just faster. I have no favorite cleaner, I have tried many, and have them all; I will use the first one (that I have tested) that I find; when empty the next brand is fine. I work on may milsurps, so I have had the opportunity (and desire) to test many; expensive and cheap, and have shared what I found. But again, most of the techniques on the many forums all work great; some better for one stock than another, but few are "wrong" and even fewer are "bad".
On my to-do list: Try some other PTO (I'll probably try one of the kits from Garand Gear; they have great reviews, I like the pictures I have seen, and I don't need a gallon from Real Milk...). I'd like to try steaming some dents; I have seen some spectacular results, and great videos. I would also like to try more staining; USSR's stain has worked great, I have just not had many stocks that needed it!
JH

Last edited by ZvenoMan; 07-28-2015 at 06:28 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2015, 02:42 AM
Smal Smal is offline
 
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This is the best info I have ever seen on stock refinishing thank you so much ZvenoMan,I have enjoyed it very much learned very much from you here,I also like your firearms,you look like a lot of your collection is similar to mine so it was nice to see what you have done with your collection,While i leave most of mine original seeing what you have done here compels me to do a lot more refinish restorations on some of mine nice job and thank you so much for taking the time to put this information together,I have in excess of 150 firearms and I am always looking for ways to improve my collection.
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2015, 06:31 AM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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150 is waaaay too many, but I am happy to help!
Glad you like my thread, and thanks for the compliment.

JH
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:19 AM
captain-03 captain-03 is offline
 
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Very Good info here .... thanks!!
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  #20  
Old 08-10-2015, 12:57 PM
TheJoker TheJoker is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post
6. GarandGear.com. I have not ordered from them, but they sell a kit that contains a citrus cleaner in a spray bottle, and a bottle of thinned oil (thinned with the same citrus cleaner they sell!) and a bottle of full strength oil. They sell it in Tung oil and Raw Linseed oil. I heard about them on some forums, people seem to like the kit, and if I was a first time refinisher I would consider it.
http://www.garandgear.com/index.php
I am a bit of a novice in regards to stock refinishing.

I concur with your thoughts on True Oil which was my late father's favorite finish. On my first Garand many years ago, I tried True Oil. I wasn't happy with how dark and shiny it left the stock.

Last year, I bought a Turkish Mauser. I did some googling and reading. I stumbled onto Garand Gear's site. I bought their RLO kit, followed their suggestions and brought the grimy old Turk stock to life. I was very pleased with the results.


More recently, I bought an unfinished Boyd's walnut replacement stock for a WIN-13 I picked up at the CMP South Store in 2010. Again, I am using the kit from Garand Gear and following their instruction. It is coming along really nicely. I am 2 or 3 coats away from being finished. I'll post up some pictures when I'm done.

Lots of good info here! Thanks!!
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