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  #21  
Old 05-04-2017, 11:47 AM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKC_Jim View Post

To me that looks like suggestion to have rifles that came after the M16A1 and scoped rifles removed, or to score them separately from those that came before. We already have class A and B in modern military. If a change needs to be made, why not just score the two classes separately from each other?
That can be a discussion for a different thread if the modern military shooters think that needs changing. I only suggested getting the vintage semi's and bolt guns in the same class
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2017, 01:34 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Shooting a bolt action is not the equivalent of shooting a semi-automatic. I think you'd find minimal support for that suggestion.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2017, 01:59 PM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
Shooting a bolt action is not the equivalent of shooting a semi-automatic. I think you'd find minimal support for that suggestion.
Not sure your point...

The garand, Springfield,vintage,and modern are all fired at the same time.
Bolt and semi's together. The goal is to put vintage rifles in the same category.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:33 PM
OKC_Jim OKC_Jim is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
Shooting a bolt action is not the equivalent of shooting a semi-automatic. I think you'd find minimal support for that suggestion.
Agreed.
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:19 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy2171 View Post
Not sure your point...

The garand, Springfield,vintage,and modern are all fired at the same time.
Bolt and semi's together. The goal is to put vintage rifles in the same category.
Not sure your point?

But they have different cut scores, for each item...both due to inherent accuracy and type of rifle.

Are you saying you just want to shoot the semi-auto foreign stuff?

This is from 2013;

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  #26  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:41 PM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
Not sure your point?

But they have different cut scores, for each item...both due to inherent accuracy and type of rifle.

Are you saying you just want to shoot the semi-auto foreign stuff?

This is from 2013;

I thought my point was clear from the first post.

"vintage" semi's should be classed with other "vintage" rifles....not lumped in with brand new rifles just because they are semi's...

and BTW your chart is out of date.
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  #27  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:51 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy2171 View Post
I thought my point was clear from the first post.

"vintage" semi's should be classed with other "vintage" rifles....not lumped in with brand new rifles just because they are semi's...

and BTW your chart is out of date.
So what is stopping you from shooting your Semi-Auto Vintage rifle?

Have you presented your case to the rules committee for consideration?

I know it's from 2013, I annotated as such.
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  #28  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:59 PM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Nothing is stopping me from shooting it...but it would be better to have it in the correct class with it's peers...

otherwise there is no point in having garand, springfield, military or vintage matches... just have a "games" match for ANY rifle... and this issue goes away...
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  #29  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:04 PM
ceresco ceresco is online now
 
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With the exception of an obscure Madsen (I have two), the bolt rifles were designed decades before the semi autos. There is no real basis for lumping them together. Removing (or separating) scopes and every AR without the old pencil barrel would allow the old semiautomatics to be reasonably competitive, but the M14 would then dominate. There is really no solution to certain rifles dominating matches. However, the modern scoped AR is so much more accurate than other MM rifles that this situation is getting more attention. The M1, 1903 and Vintage Bolt Rifle matches are currently well accepted. I would hope the MM problems can be addressed without involving the other matches. Putting the M16 type rifle (and scopes) into MM is really the root of the problem. Lacking that, the semiautomatics would all be closer with the M14 dominating....much like the current Vintage Bolt Match. JMO.... Good Shooting. ..

Last edited by ceresco; 05-04-2017 at 05:14 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:51 PM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Actually the basis for moving them is so that they compete with their peers..not rifles that are 70 years newer.

Since you don't want them competing in with the vintage bolt guns...we will allow them to shoot in the garand match instead. That shouldn't​ be a problem then..

Again this isn't about AR-15 or M14...you are welcome to start your own thread about your issues with those rifles.
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