Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Competitions > CMP Rules
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:10 AM
FiremanBob FiremanBob is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4
Default CMP-RS: "with actions open or closed..."?

I'm confused by the scripted line command for Rimfire Sporter, "WITH ACTIONS OPEN OR CLOSED ON EMPTY CHAMBERS…LOAD FIVE ROUNDS…"

Are there any class-conforming rifles in which a magazine cannot be inserted (or tube filled) with the bolt closed? I understand that certain clip-fed high power rifles do not take box magazines and therefore must be loaded with the bolt open; but I am not aware of any rimfires of that configuration.

It seems to me that it would be safer to specify loading only with the bolt closed on an empty chamber. Particularly in the case of those 10/22s which have been modified with an "auto-release" bolt lock, an accidental bump of the rifle could result in the bolt closing and chambering a round unintentionally before the Start command. I view this as a risk especially in the transitions on the rapid-fire stages.

Is there any objection to either:

- modifying the command to specify bolts must remain closed when loading, or
- specifying during the pre-match safety briefing that the "actions open" option does not apply to any rifles which have auto-release bolts?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-23-2017, 02:15 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 793
Default

A rifle with a tubular magazine would fit in that category.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:03 PM
FiremanBob FiremanBob is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4
Default

Which tube-fed rifles require an open bolt to load the magazine?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:31 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanBob View Post
Which tube-fed rifles require an open bolt to load the magazine?
None but an open bolt is indicative of a rifle that is definitely "safe". I think of a tube feed rifle as sort of like a rifle with an internal magazine. The line judge can be assured that the rifle is safe if the bolt is open. It is very easy to watch a shooter insert an external magazine and just make sure he doesn't cycle the bolt.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-26-2017, 12:59 PM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 692
Default

In RFS, tube fed rifles get more attention since they are harder to load. I have them break position cycle the action 2 times (pointed at the berm) to verify empty before allowing loading. Semi auto or lever, same thing verify empty chamber with several cycling of the action.

While they are loading I give the "stand" command to the line.
"semi autos on a closed bolt and empty chamber, Load 5 rounds"
"bolt action rifles on an open bolt and empty chamber, Load 5 rounds"

Mine is a small match 5 to 12 show up, very few even consider a tube fed. Larger matches an RSO should be close by and the match director should know that you have a tube fed. Especially since their hands are near the muzzle.

Main thing is the commands are a base line and it is up to the Match Director to add any additional safety commands, some times we improvise.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:16 PM
FiremanBob FiremanBob is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4
Default

Schmidt: Thanks, that's helpful. Your instructions for semi-autos is right in line with what I was thinking. Can't accidentally feed a round in a semi-auto during the transition if the bolt is closed when you load.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-29-2017, 10:26 AM
hemmingsenm hemmingsenm is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The thumb of Michigan
Posts: 189
Default

I have a Mossberg tube fed bolt that would not fit into the scenario you are stating. It is a bolt action but the bolt must be fully cycled to chamber. So if the bolt was open when the tube was loaded the bolt would need to be closed, opened and closed again to chamber a round. The RSO needs some leeway to determine what will be safe.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-29-2017, 10:31 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmingsenm View Post
The RSO needs some leeway to determine what will be safe.
Yep, that's the truth. It is impossible to predict what might find its way to the line. I have seen some very strange firearms.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-30-2017, 11:33 AM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 692
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmingsenm View Post
I have a Mossberg tube fed bolt that would not fit into the scenario you are stating. It is a bolt action but the bolt must be fully cycled to chamber. So if the bolt was open when the tube was loaded the bolt would need to be closed, opened and closed again to chamber a round. The RSO needs some leeway to determine what will be safe.
As long as the chamber is empty while in motion would be the concern.

Since it's a bolt gun the it has to left open, when you are in position just cycle the action twice to chamber a round. I have a lever action that works that way. Have 30 seconds to work with, plenty of time. Actually I will some times dry fire a 6 shot on the first 5 rounds just to verify my position in rapids.

Also, during slow fire, I ask tube guns to load 10 rounds to make it easier and safer.

Hope that helps
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.