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  #1  
Old 11-07-2019, 07:28 AM
BigGreen2000 BigGreen2000 is offline
 
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Default M1 Light Loads

What’s a good recipe for 200 yard M1 “light loads.” Specifically, IMR-4895 and 120-125 gr projectiles . . .
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:45 AM
USriflecal30 USriflecal30 is offline
 
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Lyman 47th manual shows 47.8 to 53.5 gr.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:51 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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Try the starting load in any loading manual.

You can experiment and reduce the starting load 1/2 grain at a time until the rifle does not function, but you are likely to get erratic accuracy.
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Last edited by rcolarco; 11-07-2019 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 09:08 AM
USriflecal30 USriflecal30 is offline
 
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Cautionary tale on reduced loads. I know and shoot with a guy that was using reduced loads with a powder supposedly designed for it. He blew up his M1903 at Talladega D-Day matches. And I mean blew it up, parts were laying all over the line. Amazingly he was the only one hurt. He went to the hospital with metal and wood all over his face. He only has eyesight because he had glasses on. CMP took his gun and all his ammo to do forensics (they later gave him a new M1903 believe it or not). The theory goes that with a smaller amount of powder in the case, the entire charge can ignite "all at once" instead of at the "burn rate." This causes about a 10x spike in pressure. Apparently it can be reproduced in a lab, but not consistently. Be careful.
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Old 11-07-2019, 09:42 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USriflecal30 View Post
Cautionary tale on reduced loads. I know and shoot with a guy that was using reduced loads with a powder supposedly designed for it. He blew up his M1903 at Talladega D-Day matches. And I mean blew it up, parts were laying all over the line. Amazingly he was the only one hurt. He went to the hospital with metal and wood all over his face. He only has eyesight because he had glasses on. CMP took his gun and all his ammo to do forensics (they later gave him a new M1903 believe it or not). The theory goes that with a smaller amount of powder in the case, the entire charge can ignite "all at once" instead of at the "burn rate." This causes about a 10x spike in pressure. Apparently it can be reproduced in a lab, but not consistently. Be careful.
Nothing wrong with caution.

Lots of people go down to 35 grains of powder in the M1 with no issues.

I suspect (but cannot prove) that blowups with reduced loads are often caused by the previous bullet not exiting the barrel. You do have to be careful.

The "cannot duplicate" nature of reduced load blowups causes me to doubt the phenomenon exists.

I do not go below the lowest listed load in the book. At least, not often, and not by much.

I load a lot of carbine ammo for a Ruger revolver. I use loads that come from a recognized source intended for T/C Contender. These loads are much lower than anything recommend for a carbine, and we all know the dire warnings about H110 and W296. No trouble so far................
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:35 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGreen2000 View Post
What’s a good recipe for 200 yard M1 “light loads.” Specifically, IMR-4895 and 120-125 gr projectiles . . .
Sir:
I realize the search function on this website is alittle tedious but there are three different threads on the front page about this very subject.
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Old 11-07-2019, 10:45 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
Nothing wrong with caution.

Lots of people go down to 35 grains of powder in the M1 with no issues.

I suspect (but cannot prove) that blowups with reduced loads are often caused by the previous bullet not exiting the barrel. You do have to be careful.

The "cannot duplicate" nature of reduced load blowups causes me to doubt the phenomenon exists.

I do not go below the lowest listed load in the book. At least, not often, and not by much.

I load a lot of carbine ammo for a Ruger revolver. I use loads that come from a recognized source intended for T/C Contender. These loads are much lower than anything recommend for a carbine, and we all know the dire warnings about H110 and W296. No trouble so far................
Sir:
Firstly: You are misquoting the gentleman.....he said "....Apparently it can be reproduced in a lab, but not consistently...….". Which is NOT the same as "cannot duplicate."
Secondly, the question of "secondary explosions" as some are calling it has been studied and is cautioned about in reloading books. As far as you not recognizing the issue or choosing to ignore it is on you.
For others reading this thread, I'd carefully look at the dangers of this real issue ………...
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:12 AM
Kilo-Sierra Kilo-Sierra is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USriflecal30 View Post
Cautionary tale on reduced loads. I know and shoot with a guy that was using reduced loads with a powder supposedly designed for it. He blew up his M1903 at Talladega D-Day matches. And I mean blew it up, parts were laying all over the line. Amazingly he was the only one hurt. He went to the hospital with metal and wood all over his face. He only has eyesight because he had glasses on. CMP took his gun and all his ammo to do forensics (they later gave him a new M1903 believe it or not). The theory goes that with a smaller amount of powder in the case, the entire charge can ignite "all at once" instead of at the "burn rate." This causes about a 10x spike in pressure. Apparently it can be reproduced in a lab, but not consistently. Be careful.
Ooooooh yea...I was at that match. I was about 12 FP's down when that happened. I saw the pieces of rifle WAY out in front of the firing line, the Ambulance, etc. It was bad.

When you say "Light Load' i think the better way to look at it is "lighter" being relative to a full powered HXP round (or similar). To ME light loads are with 110/125gr bullets and H4895. I happen to use 50grs of H4895 in my wood guns. Others use less. It is a safe load, within specs and is accurate in my rifles. One of my buds shoots only 43grs of h4895 in his and it is also accurate. His load is NOT accurate in my rifles though. The wood guns I compete with are Criterion barreled. Mike's 43grs is noticeably lighter recoiling than my 50grs. My 50grs is noticeably lighter than HXP loads. It's all relative.

I give credit to Ceresco for pioneering the light loads at 200yds idea.

Just be careful!!!

Keith
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2019, 02:27 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USriflecal30 View Post
Cautionary tale on reduced loads. I know and shoot with a guy that was using reduced loads with a powder supposedly designed for it. He blew up his M1903 at Talladega D-Day matches. And I mean blew it up, parts were laying all over the line. Amazingly he was the only one hurt. He went to the hospital with metal and wood all over his face. He only has eyesight because he had glasses on. CMP took his gun and all his ammo to do forensics (they later gave him a new M1903 believe it or not). The theory goes that with a smaller amount of powder in the case, the entire charge can ignite "all at once" instead of at the "burn rate." This causes about a 10x spike in pressure. Apparently it can be reproduced in a lab, but not consistently. Be careful.
Can you give us more specifics?
The load he was using etc...…?
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:33 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Kilo-Sierra View Post
Ooooooh yea...I was at that match. I was about 12 FP's down when that happened. I saw the pieces of rifle WAY out in front of the firing line, the Ambulance, etc. It was bad.

When you say "Light Load' i think the better way to look at it is "lighter" being relative to a full powered HXP round (or similar). To ME light loads are with 110/125gr bullets and H4895. I happen to use 50grs of H4895 in my wood guns. Others use less. It is a safe load, within specs and is accurate in my rifles. One of my buds shoots only 43grs of h4895 in his and it is also accurate. His load is NOT accurate in my rifles though. The wood guns I compete with are Criterion barreled. Mike's 43grs is noticeably lighter recoiling than my 50grs. My 50grs is noticeably lighter than HXP loads. It's all relative.

I give credit to Ceresco for pioneering the light loads at 200yds idea.

Just be careful!!!

Keith
I would use the term "light bullet" loads for your applications, that to me, is the most specific and correct term. (Maybe??) And describe the secondary explosion issue as being with "light charged" loads.
It's a function of a light powder charge not burning correctly and needless to say the loads you are running have a full powder charge.
I think that is the critical distinction to be made...…….
So how about "light bullet loads" and "light powder charge" loads??????

PS......Hogdgon publishes and specifically puts in print that H4895 can be used in "light powder charge" loads...….but you'd have to pull it up and see.
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Last edited by Gewehr43; 11-07-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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