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Old 06-27-2020, 10:14 PM
Patriot Patriot is offline
 
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Question M1 Garand loads using Military Brass

Hi guys,

Just checking on the amount of powder to use for the Garand, I have powders in:

WIN 748

VARGET

IMR 4064

IMR 4895

And HORNADY reloading book 9th and 10th additions.


Bullets are:

168gr Barnes TTSX

168gr SPEER Soft Point, and Hornady Soft Point. Hornady BTHP Match



OK, THE QUESTION:

If using HXP or any other military brass, what amount of powder to use due to the thicker brass and less capacity to reach the 2600 or 2700 FPS?

in the past, I have been only loading both commercial and Miltary brass to 45.2-45.7 grains keeping in the 2500FPS so not at max loads for any powders so I was not worried about too much pressure in the Military brass...

BUT THE TTSX or TSX requires a minimum of 2588FPS so that is entering the red zone on all but WIN748 powders, but still the less space in the Military Brass so wanting it to be safe.

here is the Barnes website loading info for the exact rounds in all their weights:

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-con...pringfield.pdf



And where do you find such published literature for the amount of powder for the military brass?


Also, has anyone used the TTSX or TSX after sighting in on regular copper/lead bullets (in my case Hornady 168gr BTHP Match Bullets)then shoot the TTSX as I have been told that it will impact in a different spot, if so how far off from zero did you experience the deviation of the TTSX or TSX round impact point?


And last question on a bullet type of would it work in a Garand?

The type is a RNSP rounded some what like the 110 gr RNSP for M1 Carbine but a lot heavier 150gr but not as round so it has a cross look of both types, and some are more heavier it is marked as a .308 and also 30-30 round. Would it cycle in a Garand, and if it does since it is more rounded would it expand faster than the RN Spire points like the above mentioned??


Patriot
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Last edited by Patriot; 06-27-2020 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:41 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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If you stick to M1-recommended loads, it does not matter what kind of brass you use. You won't get exactly the velocity in the loading book. You will be close enough.

Why do you think the Barnes bullets require some minimum velocity? That does not make any sense.

Any time you change bullets your point of impact will change. Any time, any bullet. Could be a couple of inches at 100. That is why you have adjustable sights.

Round nose bullets work in my M1s. I shoot a lot of Carbine bullets. Never tried .30-30 bullets, but no reason they will not work.
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:47 AM
Patriot Patriot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
If you stick to M1-recommended loads, it does not matter what kind of brass you use. You won't get exactly the velocity in the loading book. You will be close enough.

Why do you think the Barnes bullets require some minimum velocity? That does not make any sense.

Any time you change bullets your point of impact will change. Any time, any bullet. Could be a couple of inches at 100. That is why you have adjustable sights.

Round nose bullets work in my M1s. I shoot a lot of Carbine bullets. Never tried .30-30 bullets, but no reason they will not work.

Because Barnes Bullet company website on load data says for the TTSX & TSX to expand properly the minimum FPS must be reached the 2588 FPS... And the WIN 748 is the only one that maximum FPS is 2600 and is maxed out per load book.

Asking about the Military brass because the brass is thicker and has less space for powder and was told due to that if you donít adjust accordingly you create unsafe Case pressure and risk rupture and injury...
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:27 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
Because Barnes Bullet company website on load data says for the TTSX & TSX to expand properly the minimum FPS must be reached the 2588 FPS... And the WIN 748 is the only one that maximum FPS is 2600 and is maxed out per load book.

Asking about the Military brass because the brass is thicker and has less space for powder and was told due to that if you don’t adjust accordingly you create unsafe Case pressure and risk rupture and injury...
Well if you are concerned about expansion, you should be more worried about the terminal velocity on target than the muzzle velocity. If 748 is the only powder that gives you the muzzle velocity you want, use it. Remember the solid copper bullets have a longer bearing surface than lead bullets, and will generate higher pressures.

I repeat, if you stick to recommended M1 loads, you do not need to worry about pressure, no matter what brass you use. I would avoid full-charge hunting loads in military brass, but M1 loads are very mild.
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:42 AM
78jeep 78jeep is offline
 
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30.06 brass is all about the same. the only real one that can bite you is 308 brass, they are different. 30.06 was military first (1906) and the commercial copied it. 308 was commercial first, then the military adopted it with some changes to make 7.62 .

Horandy's "Garand safe " ammunition is 168 A-Max, listed on the box at 2700 fps. so you can get the fps you want.

in my opinion, pick a type of brass to use, I like LC or HXP. load for the best group, and let the fps fall where it may. also the max load in the book is still safe to shoot.

look at the bolt rifle section of your book for 30.06, it has loads 2 or 3 full grains more for a bolt gun verses a Garand. so its not the brass to worry about. they back off for a Garand because of the gas system.
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:47 AM
la Fiere la Fiere is offline
 
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A few thoughts:


I've never used Barnes bullets in an M1, so take this for what it's worth, but the Barnes data you linked to shows a starting load of 46.5 grains of 4064 with the 168 grain bullet. Velocity is listed as 2594 FPS. Why not start there and if necessary work up a few tenths of a grain to get the velocity (>2600) you're looking for? As mentioned Barnes bullets have different pressure characteristics than lead bullets do, so be cautious with this approach.


If you are determined to use a Barnes bullet, did you consider a 150 instead? From the Barnes data it looks like it would be a lot less trouble going that route.



165 / 168 SP hunting bullets will work in an M1 but you may encounter resistance when the bolt comes forward with the first round in a clip. The normal need to bump the oprod handle can be magnified with those types of bullets.
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:57 AM
Patriot Patriot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
Well if you are concerned about expansion, you should be more worried about the terminal velocity on target than the muzzle velocity. If 748 is the only powder that gives you the muzzle velocity you want, use it. Remember the solid copper bullets have a longer bearing surface than lead bullets, and will generate higher pressures.

I repeat, if you stick to recommended M1 loads, you do not need to worry about pressure, no matter what brass you use. I would avoid full-charge hunting loads in military brass, but M1 loads are very mild.
Ok awesome that was what I was looking for. I have the basics down of reloading , and as always there is more to learn.

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Old 06-30-2020, 05:55 AM
mac1911 mac1911 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
Ok awesome that was what I was looking for. I have the basics down of reloading , and as always there is more to learn.

Patriot
Just wondering why you are using the expensive barnes bullets, you plan on hunting with the M1?
Local guy here will buy up Barnes bullets for all the money. i came across some barnes "originals" in a box o stuff he paid me .45 each?
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:33 AM
navyrifleman navyrifleman is offline
 
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I have never loaded Barnes bullets, but I have loaded a lot of Sierra 168 grain match bullets for both .30-06 and .308 Win.

Most of the guys I have spoken with regarding reloading for .30-06 match ammo in .30-06 seem to prefer IMR 4064. It was my Dad's favorite years ago and he did a lot of experimentation with different IMR powders back in the day.

I personally shot matches with a National Match M-14 rifle and also shoot a Winchester Model 70 chambered in .308 Win. I found that Accurate AA2520 Powder was very good for that round. It can also be used in the .223 Remington match ammo and there are many recipes for it in .30-06 as well, which I have used with the 168 grain match bullets. I find it quite accurate.

I cannot give you any really comprehensive comparison between AA2520 and IMR4064, but I can say that AA2520 meters through my Lyman 55 powder measure a bit easier.

Generally speaking, loading for any semi-automatic rifle has a narrower window of options than loading for bolt action rifles. With the bolt action, you can have low pressure loads which reduce recoil and push smaller cast bullets or you can approach the upper limit of pressures with more powder and higher weight bullets - for longer ranges or big game hunting. Semi-autos, like the Garand, require high enough pressure to reliably cycle the action, bullets which feed well, and pressures at the upper end which will not damage the action. Also, the various choices of powder will have a more or less affect on the gas system (some dirtier than others).

Read the manuals carefully and look at the recipes and applications for the various powders you already have, and others you might like to try.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:38 PM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac1911 View Post
Just wondering why you are using the expensive barnes bullets, you plan on hunting with the M1?
Local guy here will buy up Barnes bullets for all the money. i came across some barnes "originals" in a box o stuff he paid me .45 each?
Barnes bullets are hunting bullets. In my experience, they are also extremely accurate. Pricey for paper punching, but they work great on deer and elk.
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