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  #11  
Old 11-08-2009, 05:59 PM
Stockyards brat Stockyards brat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoerner View Post
And those of you saying I was crazy to get a .308 barrel from my Garand, I say HA!
(Yes, there's no 7.62 NATO surplus.......yet........but it'll get out there eventually.)

Mike D
Pull your head out of the sand. It's everywhere. Igman battle packs, South African battle packs and more. I've seen it from Lithuainia!!! I've seen it from 10 years old to almost new production-probably a way to get American dollars, for what that's worth. Cheapest now is some German that has tarnished cases and is sold bulk. Military Gun Supply has it. I've seen it in other places also.

Last edited by Stockyards brat; 11-08-2009 at 05:59 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2009, 07:13 PM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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The easy and cheap availability of surplus .30-06 is actually a relatively new phenomenon. For a long time governments were hanging on to the stuff. Now it has come, and, apparently, mostly gone. However, even when milsurp was not widely available, I had no trouble feeding my M1s with handloads. Handloads always shot better, anyway.

I have not been thrilled with the accuracy of most milsurp 7.62x51.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2009, 08:17 PM
pepsi71ocean pepsi71ocean is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyCompany View Post
Thanks sig, Hey pepsi- out of curiosity, which commercial 30-06 are you going with?
Prvi-Partizan 150gr FMJ. The rounds load rough into the enbloc clips, but if you twist the 4 rounds to the left (ie, so the rounds are at a 30 degree angle) and then to the right (bend the rounds back to straight up)they sit in just fine, and then the Garand will feed properly. This is usually a problem with new enbloc clips that don't have much wear under their belt, work enblocs don't have such problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
The easy and cheap availability of surplus .30-06 is actually a relatively new phenomenon. For a long time governments were hanging on to the stuff. Now it has come, and, apparently, mostly gone. However, even when milsurp was not widely available, I had no trouble feeding my M1s with handloads. Handloads always shot better, anyway.

I have not been thrilled with the accuracy of most milsurp 7.62x51.
I agree, the only ammo my M1A loves is the new mfg Prvi M80 Ball stuff in sealed battle packs. Stuff works like a charm in my M1A, as for a Garand im not sure if it would be right.
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  #14  
Old 11-08-2009, 11:39 PM
RuggedTerrain40 RuggedTerrain40 is offline
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I think of it this way. Be a realist about it. The 30-06 M2 ball is militarily, an outdated cartridge no longer used by any first or second world military. The stuff is no longer produced, except by two commercial sources, Hornady and Federal. And thats without the en bloc clips.


So, if you buy an M1 rifle now, unless its just for collecting or financial investment purposes, you are contributing to your own ammunition situation and have nobody to blame but yourself if you were expecting cheap surplus M2 ball. It simply aint there anymore. It may come back for a short period from CMP, but if it does and thats a big IF, it probably wont last long.


Now the positive thing about this M1 Garand ammo shortage is there really is NO AMMO SHORTAGE! If you buy one case of the commercial Federal Eagle M1 Garand 30-06', youre guaranteed good quality ammo for your Garand. Cost? $187-$200 per case of 200. Brand spanking new...not thirty or more years old. I just got a case of commercial for $187 shipped to me like lightning, no multi month long wait. But I paid way more than I would have paid to CMP for surplus stuff.

If you buy one case a month for a year, thats 2400 M1 rounds. Brand new ammo, not thirty plus year old surplus stuff. Sure it aint steel core FMJ stuff, but who really cares? Thats enough for most guys to target practice with. Then you turn around and reload the brass a time or two. So, in a way, this ammo shortage separates the guys who really want to shoot their Garands from the guys who its just a casual thing for them.

For the collectors, the ammo shortage doesnt matter anyway. The M1 collectors, if they shoot their Garands at all, its probably not much.

Thats why I say anyone reading this, if youre remotely interested in high power rifle competition shooting, whether CMP or NRA...think twice before buying an M1 Garand. While it might have been true in past years it was an inexpensive way to try out your hand at high power, I believe thats no longer true. I think the cheapest way is to simply buy an AR-15 or just jump in headfirst and buy a 1:7 or 1:8 barrel twist NM AR-15. The NM AR-15s are what the serious service rifle competition shooters are mostly using anyway, why not just save your cash and buy one to start with? The 62 grain AR ammo is certainly cheaper by the case compared to the Federal and Hornady commercial M1 stuff. Also, the M-16 is what CMP uses to train newbie shooters to high power at Camp Perry's SAFS every summer, not the M1. There is a reason for that...the M-16/AR-15 are the current primary high power service rifle platforms. Makes sense to just grab one and skip over the Garand.

So, seems to me the current cheapest way into high power is to just go in headfirst and buy a 1:7 or 1:8 barrel twist NM AR-15 from the start. And a couple cases of 62 to 75 grain FMJ .223 ammo. For the price I could pay for 400 rounds of commercial M1 Garand ammo, I could get a case of 1000 AR-15 ammo!

There really is no M1 Garand ammo shortage, only a surplus M2 ball ammo shortage. The question is, are you willing to pay the cost of the commercial stuff? For most guys on this forum, it seems the answer is no, they will reload or shoot commercial 30-06' with an adjustable gas plug. But not pay commercial M1 Garand prices.

Off my soapbox

Eric

Last edited by RuggedTerrain40; 11-08-2009 at 11:44 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2009, 01:10 AM
EasyCompany EasyCompany is offline
 
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The argument about the military viability of the 30-06 cartridge based on who fields it and who currently manufactures it have nothing to do with .30 caliber “effectiveness.”

I think it is pretty clear that the .30 caliber family which was designed to kill vs. the .22 caliber family which was designed to injure have very different success ratios. An enbloc of 8 can put 8 away where a mag of 30 cannot do the same. If you want to be realistic, there it is.

While moving from the 30-06 to the 7.62 made a certain amount of sense, the moving from large 7.62 to the small 5.56 was a mistake that involved many military and non-military factors.

I do agree with most of what you say as to the market movements and cost however. But it is not a mystery that the tiny .223 is cheaper - it is 1/3 the material (and power) of the 30-06.

Speaking only for myself, I recently started shooting/collecting the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine, but cost was not a motivator. Coolness was. A sense of history. Big wooden stock that can take a beating, a cartridge that can kill any living beast, and a battle proven system in every imaginable environment on the globe. The .22 AR, well, has none of those things.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2009, 08:41 AM
pepsi71ocean pepsi71ocean is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedTerrain40 View Post
I think of it this way. Be a realist about it. The 30-06 M2 ball is militarily, an outdated cartridge no longer used by any first or second world military. The stuff is no longer produced, except by two commercial sources, Hornady and Federal. And thats without the en bloc clips.

Eric
Don't forget that there are several arms mfg's that make it, Prvi Partizan still makes M2 Ball ammo, and there are several countries that still use 30-06.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2009, 09:17 AM
mlammers mlammers is offline
 
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What would you guys consider a fair price for Garand Spec ammo. I can get it manufactured in any number of configurations, from M2 to Match loads, to hunting loads. Just let me know I will see what I can do, obviously the more we order the better the prices will get. I am a distributor for an ammo company, so we can make this happen, just need to gauge the interest.

I was thinking of offering a 150 FMJ, 150SP, and 168AMAX or something along those lines. I know this will cost more than surplus, but it will be brand new ammo, made for the Garand gas system. I want to make this good for all of us, and keep good ammo going out for Garands so we can keep them running.
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:42 AM
Short Round Short Round is offline
 
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Well...

1. I stocked up on LC and HXP a few years ago.
2. I reload and use those casings over and over
3. Cases are common as hell in this country, heck 1/3 of the rifles out there seem to be .30-06 and the average deer hunter shoots at the range and leaves his brass in the bucket. Sure they're not LC tough but they're serviceable.

I don't see my M1's going hungry at all.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2009, 12:34 PM
EasyCompany EasyCompany is offline
 
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Imagine, still building rifles in 30-06..... try to find a modern rifle NOT offered in that caliber.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2009, 01:00 PM
pgh_collector pgh_collector is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlammers View Post
What would you guys consider a fair price for Garand Spec ammo. I can get it manufactured in any number of configurations, from M2 to Match loads, to hunting loads. Just let me know I will see what I can do, obviously the more we order the better the prices will get. I am a distributor for an ammo company, so we can make this happen, just need to gauge the interest.

I was thinking of offering a 150 FMJ, 150SP, and 168AMAX or something along those lines. I know this will cost more than surplus, but it will be brand new ammo, made for the Garand gas system. I want to make this good for all of us, and keep good ammo going out for Garands so we can keep them running.
Sounds like an outstanding idea to me. This would make Garand safe ammunition readily available to non-reloaders/non-adjustable gas plug owners when the surplus ammunition well runs dry.
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