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  #11  
Old 10-27-2014, 10:10 PM
MajorD MajorD is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 493
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I am old enough to remember starting standing with rifle fully loaded for the rapid strings. My interest in high power matches was decreased greatly when they started this load under the clock in position stuff.
It is really hard to say if the operator or the rifle mag ammo whatever would be at fault if a bolt handle / charger was pulled and a round did not chamber.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2015, 11:17 AM
highpowerman highpowerman is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: California
Posts: 57
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I concur with the above shooter who says he was always trying to push it up through the bolt. A good hard firm upward motion and before you fire I always pull back the charging handle about 1 inch to see if the bolt is holding the round. This way , if it did over ride the rd, you can rack it again and not waste 3 seconds going CLICK..
highpowermaqn
DR#2086
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:48 AM
sfhurst sfhurst is offline
 
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Posts: 23
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First, sorry I am late to this thread, but I am confused about CMP alibi's. The rulebook states:

"3.7.6 Malfunctions
A malfunction is the failure of the rifle or ammunition to function properly. All
CMP Games matches are “no alibi matches” where refires are not allowed. A
competitor may attempt to clear the malfunction and continue firing. If a
malfunction cannot be cleared, the competitor must remain in position, keep
the muzzle pointed downrange and ask for range officer assistance. No
additional time and no refires are allowed for malfunctions."

I called CMP and was told there are NO line alibis allowed in a CMP-sanctioned match. Only range alibis. A malfunction of the rifle or the shooter are not allowed. I was further told that locally-run CMP matches, and even the PacFlt matches, often confuse NRA alibi rules with CMP rules.

So what is right?
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:54 AM
highpowerman highpowerman is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: California
Posts: 57
Default CMP Alibi in MAtches..

Not sure about this. the rule looks clear, but in leg matches and CMP run matches, I have seen and HAD alibi's granted as long as i didn't try to clear it. I had one in a leg and there wasn't any problem. The round had jammed sideways and the official said it counted as an alibi.
John
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2015, 12:16 PM
sfhurst sfhurst is offline
 
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To further clarify, if you search both CMP rulebooks for the word "alibi" you will see over and over no alibis allowed for mistakes by the shooter. In CMP High Power a malfunction of the weapon may be granted an alibi
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  #16  
Old 02-20-2015, 12:59 PM
CDRT CDRT is offline
 
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I think you are mixing apples and oranges.
Per the CMP Service Rifle and Pistol Rule Book, rules not in the book default to the NRA Rule Book. Therefore, in CMP EIC matches, alibis are allowed, since it does not specifically state that regular EIC matches are "no alibi" matches.

The Games are run according to the CMP Games Rule Book. It specifically states that the Games and Special EIC matches are "no alibi" matches.

So, since it is not expressly mentioned in the Service Rifle and Pistol Rule Book, alibis are allowed for the Service Rifle, Service Pistol and .22 pistol EIC matches per NRA rules.

From the Service Rifle and Pistol Rule Book:
5.1.6 Precedence in Case of Conflict
In the event of a conflict, precedence shall first be given to the CMP Competition Rules, then to applicable NRA Rules, then to applicable CMP rule interpretations, then to the match program and then to a match director’s bulletin. Conflicting NRA Rules or statements in a match program or match director’s bulletin cannot take precedence over CMP Competition Rules.
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Last edited by CDRT; 02-20-2015 at 01:04 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-20-2015, 01:24 PM
Rootsy Rootsy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monroe, Michigan
Posts: 1,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhurst View Post
First, sorry I am late to this thread, but I am confused about CMP alibi's. The rulebook states:

"3.7.6 Malfunctions
A malfunction is the failure of the rifle or ammunition to function properly. All
CMP Games matches are “no alibi matches” where refires are not allowed. A
competitor may attempt to clear the malfunction and continue firing. If a
malfunction cannot be cleared, the competitor must remain in position, keep
the muzzle pointed downrange and ask for range officer assistance. No
additional time and no refires are allowed for malfunctions."

I called CMP and was told there are NO line alibis allowed in a CMP-sanctioned match. Only range alibis. A malfunction of the rifle or the shooter are not allowed. I was further told that locally-run CMP matches, and even the PacFlt matches, often confuse NRA alibi rules with CMP rules.

So what is right?
There are no shooter / equipment alibis in CMP GSM matches. Only range alibis. That is what your above section (3.7.6) refers to as it is out of the CMP Games rule book.

For CMP Hi-Power the following govern and are out of the CMP National Match rule book.

For NTIT (National Trophy Infantry Team)

Section 8.6.3

Quote:
Malfunctions.
No alibis are accepted for misfires, disabled firearms or
other failures of range or team equipment.
Annex A - Which defers to NRA Rule 9.6

Quote:
Malfunction, Service Rifle.

A malfunction is the failure of the rifle or
ammunition to function properly. NRA Rule 9.6 governs Service Rifle
malfunctions. A competitor may be given a refire if the malfunction is not
his/her fault. If the malfunction is the fault of the competitor, no alibi or refire is allowed
NRA Rule 9.6 states

Quote:
9.6 Malfunction—Failure of the rifle to function properly due to mechanicaldefects or to defective ammunition.

(a) In Rapid Fire, if a competitor tries to clear a malfunction and is
unsuccessful, he will not be granted an alibi. If a competitor clears a
malfunction and fails to fire the required number of shots, he will not
be granted an alibi.If the bolt is closed and the striker has fallen, and
there is an unfired round in the chamber or magazine, the competitor
will be given an alibi.

(b) All shots fired by a competitor after taking position at the firing point
will be counted in the score. (See Rule 14.6.)24

(c) Failure of a sling or sling swivel at any time shall be grounds for a
malfunction refire.
(For procedure in case of a malfunction see Rules 10.9 and 10.10. For
refiring see Rule 9.14).

9.6.1 Trigger Malfunction—

(a) When a bolt action rifle or semi-automatic rifle malfunctions due
to “doubling” or “slam fire,” neither condition will be grounds for
a refire with the only
remedy being Rule

9.5––Disabled Rifle.

(b) All shots fired by a
competitor after taking
position at his firing
poing will be counted
in the score. (See Rule
14.6.)

9.6.2 Removal of Malfunctioning
Rifle—

A rifle that
repeatedly malfunctions may
be removed from the range at
the discretion of the Range Officer,
Referee, Match Director or
Supervisor.
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  #18  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:21 PM
aloreman aloreman is offline
 
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Location: Fl
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Perry is the most alibis ive ever seen in a no alibi match.
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  #19  
Old 02-20-2015, 05:57 PM
alpha sierra alpha sierra is offline
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Location: Ohio
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We're building a generation of shooters who think the CMP Games is the competitive aspect of the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

Odin weeps......
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  #20  
Old 02-23-2015, 08:00 AM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Location: Arizona
Posts: 8,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha sierra View Post
We're building a generation of shooters who think the CMP Games is the competitive aspect of the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

Odin weeps......
Its a competition too, though you dont care for it. Lots of people having fun, and it is marksmanship.
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