Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Competitions > EIC Pistol
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-10-2018, 08:13 PM
Ham_Chu Ham_Chu is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 164
Default Recommended reading for EIC Pistol

OK, I started shooting this.

I am dry firing each night (~20 times) and have a 5lbs dumbell I hold in shooting position for 3-5 seconds at a time to build some stamina.

I went shooting yesterday, and 25 yds missed the target completely (just a repair center). Coming back to 12 yds I ripped the entire lower left corner out of the target (very consistently, I might add).

The standard 'pie chart' tells me I am 'tightening fingers' or 'jerking/slapping trigger.' I am looking for something that might help me with this, body position, practice drills etc...

Other than some very repetitive internet articles by Zins, is there a definitive book out there on how to do this?

Everything out there I find now basically says 'Find something that works and don't change.'

Thanx in advance
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-10-2018, 11:15 PM
mustang82 mustang82 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 289
Default

If you can find a copy or borrow a copy:
The Pistol Shooter's Treasury by Gil Hebard is the best reference for any pistol shooter.
A collection of articles by accomplished pistol shooters. Bullseye "heavy".
Also
Lots of good reading here: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:59 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 992
Default

Firstly, I don't find the "pie chart" to be all that good in determining what a shooter is doing wrong. The best thing is to do repeated dry firing followed by the "ball and dummy" drill. The name of the game is to exert proper trigger control so that the pistol doesn't move when the trigger is pulled. If you can master dry firing, then use the "ball and dummy"drill to determine if you are anticipating recoil. That is a very common problem with new pistol shooters and might explain your shooting low on the target. It is important to grip the pistol firmly and to pull the trigger with the correct part of your finger. Some say to pull the trigger with the tip of the finger or at the first joint but the correct place is where your finger needs to be to pull the trigger rearward without any induced side motion. I hope that helps you get started. Rick
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:50 PM
bpm32 bpm32 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South MD
Posts: 318
Default

Regarding the Circle of Misfortune and the Ball and Dummy Drill: those things tell you what you’re doing wrong, and they’re great for “ah-ha” moments, but they don’t necessarily tell you how to fix it. For example, if you’re heeling.....now what? Do you tell yourself to stop heeling? Can you will it to be so that way? I truly don’t know.

For whatever it’s worth, I’ve found that nothing beats dryfiring, not even live fire. It tells you how you’re shooting without the distraction of recoil. Focus on doing it right, not on what you might have been doing wrong. Dryfire a lot against a blank wall, even with a muzzle a few inches away from the wall to eliminate issues with focus (so you don’t get tired and focus in front of the front sight without realizing it). People use a lot of gimmicks, and they help a lot of shooters, so I won’t knock them, but I’m not sure they’re necessary. Weights? Your pistol is a weight. Lift it a lot. Dryfire a lot. If your trigger control is bad, change the grip a little. Experiment with trigger finger placement. That stuff is all shooter dependent.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:36 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpm32 View Post
For example, if you’re heeling.....now what? Do you tell yourself to stop heeling? Can you will it to be so that way? I truly don’t know.
Heeling is the result of changing one's grip pressure while pulling the trigger. That can be pretty easily cured in most cases by maintaining sufficient grip pressure. Those who start out with a light grip are far more susceptible to heeling.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:17 AM
bpm32 bpm32 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South MD
Posts: 318
Default

I reread the OP and realized I blathered on about standard Bullseye tropes without addressing the question. As mentioned above, Gil Hebard’s “The Pistol Shooter’s Treasury” is the best resource, especially Blankenship’s article “The Great Game of Shooting”. The Army Marksmanship Unit puts out a book called “Advanced Pistol Guide” which is pretty good. CMP sells that in the E-Store for $7.30. They also sell “Mind Over Matter”, a 3 DVD set on Bullseye featuring AMU shooters. For a person brand new to Service Pistol the DVDs are actually quite good. There is also an older AMU book called “The Advanced Pistol Marksmanship Manual”.

Finally, everyone always cites AA Yur’yev’s “Competitive Shooting” for shooting. Like “Pistol Shooter’s Treasury” it’s out of print, but if you can find a copy for a reasonable price, it’s worth it. It’s geared toward International style shooting, as is the newer “Pistol Shooting: The Olympic Disciplines” by Reinkemeier and Buhlmann.

Honestly, for Service Pistol I’d just stick with the AMU book from CMP and maybe Hebard’s book, which is actually just a compilation of articles from his old gunshop catalog. Unfortunately after Gil passed away and all the old stock was sold the book became unavailable and now goes for crazy prices.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-15-2018, 08:51 PM
Ham_Chu Ham_Chu is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 164
Default

Thanx.....I'm looking them up now.

Much appreciated
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-20-2018, 09:03 AM
TomH TomH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 206
Default

Brian Zins has a series of videos on YouTube that are fairly recent and full of the same information he puts out in his clinics. Very good in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-23-2018, 10:14 AM
mtlucas0311 mtlucas0311 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Macomb Twp, Michigan
Posts: 299
Default

I believe this is what you are looking for:

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

Bullseye usually takes a while to get good at. When practicing slow fires, don’t try to get a “10” every time. Focus on getting perfect sight alignment, and settle for “good” sight picture. Really practice keeping your eye focused on the front sight blade and continuing to aim as the gun fires. I’ve found that “staying on the sights” will help you to not anticipate the recoil and dip the front of the gun as you try to squeeze the trigger.

Since it sounds like your shooting way left and low, my guess is your two biggest issues are anticipating recoil and grabbing at the trigger (assuming your right handed). I tend to do the same thing. Staying on the sights and follow through has helped significantly with anticipating, and I’ve found trigger pull consistency has helped greatly with grabbing (or jerking) the trigger. When we shoot the slow fire, we have all the time in the world. So we hold the gun up there for a long time trying to dress up the shot and make everything perfect. In doing that we tend to really focus on a slow long, often interrupted, squeeze of the trigger. But we then have to transition to the timed and rapid fire where we have no time to do all this. I’ve found it very difficult to transition from long and drawn out to a quick steady squeeze. Consequently, you see the sights right where you want them and grab at the trigger. When I did that I’d have a nice tidy little group at 7:30 in the outer scoring rings. I now focus on executing the same trigger control for all stages, and it’s helped significantly. For slow fire, I get the gun up and attempt to get everything lined up. After about 3 to 5 seconds I determine if sight alignment and picture look good and try to firmly and steadily squeeze the trigger in about 2 seconds. If it doesn’t...put the gun down, relax your grip slightly, rest your eyes and take a breath or two. Put it back up and try again. In timed fire, you don’t have the Luxury of starting over, but you do have a fair amount of time. I get the gun up, get everything lined up and squeeze in the exact same manner. When the gun comes back after recoil, line up the sights and do it again. With rapid fire, there’s no time line up the sights and THEN start to squeeze, so I start to squeeze as I’m lining up the sights and trust that I’ll get them there as the shot breaks. Again, I believe staying on the sights through the entire process is critical.

Hope something here helps, good luck,
Mike.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-03-2018, 09:29 PM
DaveHH DaveHH is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,551
Default

I remember the first time I shot Bullseye. I had just bought Maj Hank Bires' pistols an F.Bob Chow 45 and a Chow tuned Model 41 all in a Pachmeyer box with Bushnell Sentry scope. I shot next to the club champion who was shooting a S&W mod 52.

I did OK on the 25 yard target but missed every shot at 50 yds. It was humbling to look so bad and feel worse. Watching the champ smack shot after shot at 50 yds was even more cruel. I wanted to cry and leave.


A book that I found interesting is "The Art of Handgun Shooting" by Captain Charles Askins. Once you step over Chuck's ego and get through the stupid stuff, it has quite a bit of tips and instruction. Shooting hawks with a .38 seems fine and blowing away classic car bodies testing the new police ammo is normal.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:54 AM.