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  #21  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:57 PM
mac1911 mac1911 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpl w View Post
I've weighed the weapon. I also removed the front grip and with that gone she comes in at a hair under 9 lb 2 oz
Thats good as stated in the email response posted previously it only needs to be "around 9lbs" also SAI rifles got a few once leeway
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:07 PM
mac1911 mac1911 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champ0608 View Post
It all comes down to CMP's interpretation of rule 5.2.2a "The exterior configuration of the rifle must be similar to that of the original military or military-type rifle"

Emphasis on original. CMP is probably scratching their heads, wondering what to do with this specific and somewhat rare case, and wondering the implications of their decision.

I've never shot a modern military match, to have the chance to look at the field. My guess is that most of the ARs have all sorts of doo-dads and gizmos attached to them, and based on that I don't see how they could really have a problem with this stock.

I mean really, take a look at what a nightmare service rifles have become with aftermarket adjustable stocks, aftermarket quad rails, aftermarket scopes, aftermarket mounts and rings. With all that being allowable now, I can't imagine they'd have a problem with your stock.

But all of that is conjecture.
Similar is a royal CF.
My ford escort is similar to a Mustang GT....

If the intent is to get shooters on the line with ARs,Garands, M1a and others for cmp games CMP needs to remove proverbial thumb from kiester and actually go see whats on the shelves these days.

Or really get the rules straight forward and easy to under stand.

Especially on weight as there are not many ARs other than A1s that make weight easily.
Same with the M1a weights are all over the place.
I needed to do some creative parts swap/removal/substitutions to get my M1a to weight.
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:10 PM
cpl w cpl w is offline
 
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I thought the M14 weighed 9.2 lb. when it was USGI, I still have to have a swivel to put my sling on so I'll try taking the front grip off tomorrow. The whole thing, E2 stock and all weighed 9 lb 8 oz sometimes 7 oz.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:25 PM
cpl w cpl w is offline
 
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got the grip off and now the rifle weighs about 9 lb 3 oz. That's with a digital fish scale. A couple of times it showed 9 lb 2 oz and 9 lb 4 oz so accuracy is questionable. I'll show up with it and see what happens.
w

Last edited by cpl w; 11-20-2019 at 05:29 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:00 PM
mac1911 mac1911 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpl w View Post
got the grip off and now the rifle weighs about 9 lb 3 oz. That's with a digital fish scale. A couple of times it showed 9 lb 2 oz and 9 lb 4 oz so accuracy is questionable. I'll show up with it and see what happens.
w
only SAI standard gets a pass on over weight


Michelle Woods <mwoods@thecmp.org>

Feb 27, 2019, 9:27 AM




to me

In the Games rule book found at http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads...df?vers=020719, rule 5.2.2 General Rules for Modern Military Rifles…

Semi-automatic military rifles of U. S. or foreign manufacture or commercial rifles of the same type and caliber or commercial variations of military-type rifles may be fired. There are two categories of Modern Military Rifles
1) Standard Modern Military Rifles (Class A-AR-type and Class B-other military rifles) and
2) Unlimited Modern Military Rifle (Also Class A-AR-type and Class B-other military rifles).
All Modern Military Rifles, Standard or Unlimited, must comply with the following general requirements:
a)The exterior configuration of the rifle must be the similar to that of the original military or military-type rifle;
b)The trigger pull may not be less than 4.5 lbs.;
c)Butt-stocks may vary in length and be either fixed or adjustable. Adjustable length stocks are permitted, but butt stocks that allow for other adjustments such as the cheek-piece height or butt-plate location may not be used; and
d)Magazines may have a capacity of no more than 30 rounds. Magazines may not be used to support the rifle in a firing position where the magazine rests on the ground, shooting mat or arm.

Rule 5.2.4 e)…
Upon request and the presentation of documentation regarding the rifle, this would be for a rifle that is not listed in the class B rifles that you feel should be listed, the CMP Competitions Department may approve the use of other as-issued or production-type Modern Military Rifles that comply with Rule 5.2.2. Weight limits for those rifles must be established according to their maximum weight in an as-issued condition.

The Springfield Armory M1A Standard model would be legal for the Modern Military Matches with the weight of 9.3 lbs. (if the rifle were over 9.4lbs the rifle would not be legal).
The James River M14 full length military configuration would be legal if the weight is 9lbs as listed in the table.
The Bula listed at 9lbs. would be legal for the Modern Military Match.

As our Service Rifle Competition rules evolved to accommodate optics, unfortunately so too did our standard Modern Military rules. In order to accommodate these optics in the Modern Military match, overall weight was addressed by necessity at the same time. With this shift we had Inadvertently created a distinct advantage for particular rifles that could now compete at a heavier weight with minimally restricted modern optics. This led to a rapid influx of rifles essentially built to a lighter weight, Service Rifle Competition specification. As a result, a significant portion of the rifles around which the Modern Military match was originally focused had been rendered obsolete and uncompetitive. It was never our intent for this match to become dominated by “match” AR’s with exorbitantly expensive optics. The 2019 rules represent an effort to correct this oversight, restoring the original intent and diversity of competition for the Standard Modern Military Match classification.
The second significant change to the 2019 rules pertains to general limitations on “accurizing”. The original general restriction on accurizing was again intended to prevent a firearm built to competition Service Rifle Specifications and limit the potential for the Modern Military Match to devolve into another equipment race. Inadvertently, this ban limited participation of the commonly available firearms which were within the match’s original design. It was brought to our attention that commonly available and inexpensive AR type rifles are sold with attributes (float tubes, alternate Sights, etc) which would prevent them from competing due to the accurizing ban. Since the 2019 reversion to the previous weight limit of 7.5 lbs (AR) will eliminate the possibility of competition with a Service Rifle Specification firearm, the impact of any further accurizing is mitigated. In the interest if inclusivity and simplicity of enforcement, the 2019 rules relax any additional restrictions regarding accurizing beyond the clearly defined position on optics and overall weight. 2019 revisions will also ensure that other rifles, such as the M1A which is often sold with an “NM” front sight, will be legal for competition in their commonly available configuration.
I hope that helps explain the changes.


Michelle Woods
Thanks for your continued support of the CMP.
Customer Service/Program Support
mwoods@thecmp.org
Phone (419) 635-2141 Ext. 722

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  #26  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:06 PM
mac1911 mac1911 is offline
 
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I installed one of these to loose some weight. No idea if legal for cmp games or not?
https://www.amazon.com/Butt-Lite-Lig.../dp/B00IK5LOFC
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  #27  
Old 11-21-2019, 03:59 PM
cpl w cpl w is offline
 
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I'll take a chance on the scales at the range.
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  #28  
Old 11-21-2019, 04:13 PM
RVN 69-70 RVN 69-70 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpl w View Post
I'll take a chance on the scales at the range.
Well...whatever the outcome----HAVE FUN!
__________________
SGT US ARMY RA - RVN 69-70,
8th Field Hospital - Nha Trang
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  #29  
Old 11-21-2019, 06:49 PM
ilionkid ilionkid is offline
 
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"The Springfield Armory M1A Standard model would be legal for the Modern Military Matches with the weight of 9.3 lbs."
My problem with the CMP's way of listing weight is that a decimal listing of .3 equals 3/10 of 16 ounces not 3 ounces. 3/10 of 16 is 3 times 1.6 ounces or 4.8 ounces. Until they fix this there will always questions by those of us who actually paid attention in math class.
Mike
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:50 PM
cpl w cpl w is offline
 
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Mike....I believe they are thinking in tenths and I agree with you...almost. Math was the last thing I was paying attention to in Math Class.
w
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