* No flaming or insulting of other members. You will get one warning via a private message. Repeat offenses will result in being banned. (We are quite serious about this folks).
* Vendor bashing will not be tolerated. You will get one warning via a private message. Repeat offenses will result in being banned.
* When posting, try to use descriptive titles for your threads to enhance the searchability of the site. Thread titles such as "Help Me" or "Dang this sucks" should NOT be used. Instead try titles like 'Need Help with Sights', 'How to Perform Stock Refinish', or 'Vibration in Handguard". This will help other people search the site with better accuracy and make it easier for people to help you out.
* Everyone has a personal opinion and they will often differ from others. If you get into an argument over something, debate the issue, not the member. If you feel the need to get into a heated discussion with someone, send them a private message. Personal debates on the forum will not be tolerated.
* Do NOT post copyrighted material on this Forum without consent of the author. This could be from another website, or a book that you personally own. The owner/Admins of this site will not be held liable for any copyright infringement of this type, and as such, will prevent (to the best of our ability) it's posting in public. This is for the protection of ALL members.
* Do NOT post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws. These types of messages will not be tolerated. You will get one warning via a private message. Serious offenses may result in immediate permanent suspension. Repeat offenses will result in being permanently suspended.
* Avoid thread hi-jacking. Moderators will be looking for this and will more than likely split the topic if it gets too drastic, as well as take appropriate action where deemed necessary, to include deleting posts and/or enforcement action.
Please do not post the same question or post across multiple forums, or in the same thread. The best way to get the answers you are searching for is to post a clear single question in the appropriate forum and be patient, Replies will come. If you are in a hurry for a particular answer try using the search button or reading through replies to similar questions. It may just contain the information that you need. No need to post the same information again and again as this just clogs up threads/sub-forums.
Do not bump non-Marketplace threads as that can clutter the front page of a discussion forum. Posts bumping discussion threads will be deleted.
* Any members advertising their wares on the site without expressed permission will get banned. Personal items for sale in the classifieds are ok as long as the meet the criteria laid out in the site rules.
* Do not post any info, posts or threads regarding the process of going to the estore and artificially placing a large number of items in your cart simply for the purpose of seeing what inventory remains of an item carried on the estore!
This activity slows down the estore and can cause problems with it crashing, errors with people's orders, and inventory errors, particularly during periods of high demand/traffic.
Anyone making such posts on the forum will be warned once, then have their forum privileges suspended at least temporarily for a second violation. Further violations can result in permanent suspension.
* There will be no posting of links to, or copying information from listings on outside auctions/commercial sites, i.e. -- Gunbroker, Ebay, Armslist, Craigslist, Reddit, gun trader sites, etc, that are still active/live. We will not provide a platform for members to promote said auctions as there is no viable way to determine whether they or someone they know has a stake in the auction. Posts with this information will be removed. Continual violations will result in suspension of forum privileges. You may link to closed/completed auctions in the sake of education and learning.
* Users who post fake information, i.e. - name, location, in their profile, or otherwise provide/post false information/data about themselves will be instantly banned. Users who register multiple usernames will also be removed.
* Your account may be revoked at any time for any reason.
Generally, the following enforcement policy will apply:
1st offense - warning
2nd offense - banned for one week to six month
3rd offense - banned for one year
4th offense - banned permanently
** Depending on the nature of the offense/rule violation, first offense can result in ANY of the above enforcement actions.
ADDITIONAL RULES, TO INCLUDE MARKETPLACE/CLASSIFIED AD RULES:
1. Profile Requirements
To start a sale, buy or trade thread anywhere in the Marketplace, your Profile must contain:
A. Your FIRST and LAST name as well as your STATE of residence. Your profile privacy settings must be set to at least allow registered users the ability to view your profile info, i.e. - Not set to "Friends only."
B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.
Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).
Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning. PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.
2. The Marketplace is intended SOLELY for the mutual benefit of forum members as a resource to support each other's collecting and/or shooting goals.
It is NOT intended for, and will NOT be used by members as a repeated, for-profit venture/operation. This includes:
A. Purchasing items from members on the forum, then posting them for sale at a markup/profit on other commercial sites, i.e. – eBay, Gunbroker, etc.
B. Reselling items at a considerable markup that were recently purchased from CMP.
Members found to have clearly abused this policy will lose the ability to post in and use the Marketplace, and potentially have their forum privileges suspended, temporarily or permanently.
3. You may only list personally owned items, and/or request/WTB items for yourself. “Selling (or buying) this for a friend/family member” ads, and 3rd-party sales/purchases are prohibited.
Additionally, NO posting or linking to listings on eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, Reddit, or other outside auction/commercial sites. We will not have the items placed here also. List your product here, try to sell it here, then take it to eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, auction-arms, etc.
4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.
NOTE REGARDING 1911 PISTOLS PURCHASED FROM CMP: If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]
5. Vendors (or people selling large quantities of the same item as part of a commercial venture) must first contact a moderator or admin.
6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.
7. CLASSIFIED AD REQUIREMENTS
A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an ad...it can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.
8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.
9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.
10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.
11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.
12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.
13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.
14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.
Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.
15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.
16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the Marketplace...post a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.
OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b> http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.
MODERATION RULES/ENFORCEMENT
1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
2. Inappropriate or out of hand threads shall be closed with or without reason posted for the closure or deleted at the discretion of the Mods/Admins.
3. If you cannot follow the rules set forth, your posts may be deleted, removed, or edited by the Moderators.
4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.
NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.
DISCLAIMER
The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program forum is intended primarily to be a technically-oriented website for professional, courteous, and intellectual discussion of CMP matches, activities, firearms and related events. We are an online community founded by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, of all ages and walks of life. Remember that we have youth CMP participants who view this site. Please enjoy your stay and with your help, we can make the CMP Forums safe for all.
The opinions and posts on this site do not necessarily reflect those of The Civilian Marksmanship Program.
If you have any questions, please contact a Moderator
Have noticed that carbines with import markings are running 400-600 dollars less than un-marked rifles. Is this because of the import marks or are the rifles a lesser quality??
There's a subset of carbine collectors that believe regardless of condition, an import mark degrades and devalues the piece.
Couple years ago, someone here said they no longer consider the firearm USGI if it is import marked.
Depending on the point of origin, possible concerns with maintenance, care and storage, in that we know the US Mil process for same, but other countries may or may not do the same.
Certain importers were overly aggressive with stampings, so there are reports of some with bent barrels.
And some import marked carbines may have non US made parts.
(ala Erma Barrels on some Bavarians)
Now...if you can do a hands on inspection, that should answer/address any concerns you may have about an import marked firearm.
My first carbine was a Blue Sky import and it shot great. I have owned several CMP carbines and traded/sold off most of them because my Imported rifle was more accurate, less expensive, more of a shooter than a collectable and shot smoother than all but one of my CMP rifles.
People say that Import stamps on the Blue Sky rifles had deep importer stamps on the barrel that could affect accuracy but mine has a light stamp and hasn't affected anything. Also, if you can find a good condition import you could always trade out the barrel and yiu would still be less expensive than some that I see for sale.
I just plain do not like the fact that it was done. No reason to have ever put import marks on a domestic manufactured Firearm. Government stupidity at its finest..
I've owned several "Blue Sky" marked carbines and while not pleasing in appearance, ALL performed as well as any I got from CMP. They donlt sell as quick and may not sell for quite as much, but nowhere like 400 less; more like $100.
Over the years, I have certainly enjoyed taking advantage of the "import snobbery" discount on Blue Sky-marked carbines.
If you know what you are looking for, you can find some fantastic bargains in firearms that collectors openly scoff, for prices a couple hundred lower than non-import marked guns.
Strangely, they seem to cycle and put lead on target just as well as non-import carbines.
If you know what you are looking for, you can find some fantastic bargains in firearms that collectors openly scoff, for prices a couple hundred lower than non-import marked guns.
Strangely, they seem to cycle and put lead on target just as well as non-import carbines.
Anyone who wants to collect carbines should care about import marks because they affect value.
Anyone who wants a carbine to shoot shouldn't care about import marks because they don't affect shooting.
An import mark indicates that the rifle was in the hands of another government other than the US.
On the other hand, so why does that not affect the price of other rifles known to be in the hands of other than US Government, but have no." import" mark:
"Bavarian/Austrian" Carbines sold by the CMP.
"Greek" Garands sold by the CMP.
"Danish" Garands sold by the CMP.
"Turkish" Garands to be sold by the CMP?
"Navy" Garands sold by the CMP. (OK, the Navy is, I guess, part of the US Government, but as an Army guy.....)
Each can have markings or other characteristics that make it obvious that these rifles were were in the hands of other than the US Army or the US Marines.
So why are other markings indicating non-USGI provenance not acceptable?
The premium paid for "Lend-Lease" Garands coming back from Great Britain (I keep wanting to say "England") come to mind.
Import marks never bothered me much, and other than a slight negative to the overall value of the rifle, I wouldn't let it stop me from buying a good rifle at a fair price. I might use it as a bit of negotiating leverage, but I don't honestly feel it degrades the value of the gun more than a few dollars.
Now if you're talking about higher end collectibles, maybe more; but I don't tend to swim in that end of the collecting pool, so it's never been an issue for me.
Pictures, please; I live vicariously through the purchases of others...
Import, schmimport, most of the carbines sold by the CMP were "imports", being "returns" from foreign governments; they just weren't required to be marked as such since they never passed through a commercial importer. The neighbor's great uncle's best friend's bring back is obviously a different story
My problem is not that they were used by other country's. That could bother me in the least. That is fine that the CMP ones were brought back over. My problem is that the stamps were done in the first place. These Carbines are not imported rifles and should have never been marked as such..They were all made here. And came back home to their rightful place.
Sorry, but it just makes me sick to see our History defaced by such nonsense, and there is not one single reason for it to have been done in the first place.
I think the "Import" stamp stigma is slowly dying. It still gets a thumbs down from hardcore collectors, I think because the stamp is not "original" to the piece. Of resent years, lets face it, virtually ALL Garands and carbines we got/get from CMP have come from another country. I got a Greek Garand with a Beretta hand guard.
Our U.S. Army kinda' "imports" them back into the country, at no cost for the weapons, if you want to look at it that way, they just don't put an "import" stamp on them.
I had an Inland I bought many years ago that had a "scratch" on the bottom of the barrel. A few years later and with a powerful magnifying glass I saw it was an import mark. It still shot great.
I have seen only a few Blue Sky stamps and they were all deep and ugly. Just one was struck so deeply it affected the bore. We check the bore with a tight patch wet patch. Shoved it slowly down the bore, when we hit the area of the stamp it was a bit harder to move, once past it it took less muscle to move.
For me, if the stamp is small and not in a prominent place I'd pay $100-150 less for the item. Heavy Blue Sky, I'd pass without even checking the bore. Their stamp was just butt ugly!!!
Oh, and I agree the whole stamping deal was wrong for our own rifles, etc.
J.R.
Home of the FREE Carbine Club Newsletter Index [email protected] I do NOT have newsletters to sell! ONLY our INDEX of what is in each issue. To get the issues see the link for the Carbine collectors Club. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/
An import mark indicates that the rifle was in the hands of another government other than the US.
On the other hand, so why does that not affect the price of other rifles known to be in the hands of other than US Government, but have no." import" mark:
"Life is Good!"
Maybe import stamped carbines just need a good marketing campaign. With perhaps Kate Upton as the spokesperson saying how sexy she thinks a Blue Sky or other import stamp is on a barrel. I'm thinking something similar to the Carl Jr's burger commercials.
Lacking both the effette' elan of serious collectors of little stamped parts and sometimes lacking the serious money needed for "pure" untouched specimens, I lose no sleep over an import mark on a carbine.
Maybe its because I actually shoot them. Who knows? I judge them by performance, not by looks, to an extent. I know how to make them run and run they do.
I have noted a number of times that the most accurate carbine I have ever shot is a Blue Sky with a pretty deep import mark. No one told the gun it cannot shoot and like a less than 10 on a 10 scale, she tries harder. Maybe it is because it remains the most expensive carbine I ever bought. Again, who knows?
What I do know, is that the Blue Sky 3' from my head is a whole lot nicer than the 4 line electro-penciled crapola on most of the current imports. Those do make me barf.
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