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This activity slows down the estore and can cause problems with it crashing, errors with people's orders, and inventory errors, particularly during periods of high demand/traffic.
Anyone making such posts on the forum will be warned once, then have their forum privileges suspended at least temporarily for a second violation. Further violations can result in permanent suspension.
* There will be no posting of links to, or copying information from listings on outside auctions/commercial sites, i.e. -- Gunbroker, Ebay, Armslist, Craigslist, Reddit, gun trader sites, etc, that are still active/live. We will not provide a platform for members to promote said auctions as there is no viable way to determine whether they or someone they know has a stake in the auction. Posts with this information will be removed. Continual violations will result in suspension of forum privileges. You may link to closed/completed auctions in the sake of education and learning.
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ADDITIONAL RULES, TO INCLUDE MARKETPLACE/CLASSIFIED AD RULES:
1. Profile Requirements
To start a sale, buy or trade thread anywhere in the Marketplace, your Profile must contain:
A. Your FIRST and LAST name as well as your STATE of residence. Your profile privacy settings must be set to at least allow registered users the ability to view your profile info, i.e. - Not set to "Friends only."
B. You must "enable receive email and PM’s" in your Control panel if you intend to buy or sell.
Additionally, you must have a valid email address listed in your registration profile (which can only be viewed by moderators/admin in the vBulletin master page).
Users with obvious fake names, or using false names in their profile will be permanently removed from the forum without warning. PLEASE NOTE: When a member has failed to put their full names and location in their profile, their ads will be deleted WITHOUT NOTICE. You are responsible enough to be involved in firearm activity, so you can be responsible enough to read and understand the forum rules. The posted rules ARE your notice as they are posted throughout the forum. Threads/ads will be restored once a member has updated their profile with first and last name, and state.
2. The Marketplace is intended SOLELY for the mutual benefit of forum members as a resource to support each other's collecting and/or shooting goals.
It is NOT intended for, and will NOT be used by members as a repeated, for-profit venture/operation. This includes:
A. Purchasing items from members on the forum, then posting them for sale at a markup/profit on other commercial sites, i.e. – eBay, Gunbroker, etc.
B. Reselling items at a considerable markup that were recently purchased from CMP.
Members found to have clearly abused this policy will lose the ability to post in and use the Marketplace, and potentially have their forum privileges suspended, temporarily or permanently.
3. You may only list personally owned items, and/or request/WTB items for yourself. “Selling (or buying) this for a friend/family member” ads, and 3rd-party sales/purchases are prohibited.
Additionally, NO posting or linking to listings on eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, Reddit, or other outside auction/commercial sites. We will not have the items placed here also. List your product here, try to sell it here, then take it to eBay, Craigslist, Gunbroker, auction-arms, etc.
4. There will be no “auction style” selling here…If you post an item for sale and it says anything like "I will take the highest offer" it will be removed.
We ask that you list your item on just one forum, so there is not confusion and/or issues with an item being sold on another forum when someone attempts to purchase it here. If you do list and sell on another forum, it is your responsibility to immediately update your ad on our forum…if you do not, your privilege to post in the Marketplace and even the forum itself may be suspended, at least temporarily.
NOTE REGARDING 1911 PISTOLS PURCHASED FROM CMP: If you are considering selling a 1911/1911A1 you acquired directly from CMP, you MUST obtain approval from CMP1911ADMIN before listing it on the forum as purchasers of these weapons are not allowed to resell them as a condition of the purchase. You may reach him via PM or email: [email protected]
5. Vendors (or people selling large quantities of the same item as part of a commercial venture) must first contact a moderator or admin.
6. Omission of information is also known as fraud. It is wholly the responsibility of the person listing an item to describe it ACCURATELY and TRUTHFULLY.
Example: If you are selling a rifle stock that has a 9 inch crack in it you need to disclose that information to the buyer. Do not describe the item or tell the buyer that the stock has "light scratches" only.
If we determine that you defraud a member by failing to disclose facts about your items, your access to this section will be restricted and you may be permanently banned from the forum.
7. CLASSIFIED AD REQUIREMENTS
A. Briefly describe your item in the title, along with WTS, WTT or WTB.
B. We do not have any rules regarding notification of a purchase or trade in an ad...it can be accomplished via a post on the thread, a PM, an email, a phone call, a pigeon carrier, etc. However, if you set the terms of your sale, you must follow them! We do not require or enforce any conditions of purchase; however, if a member violates their own terms then they are subject to at least suspension from the Marketplace section. For example: If you say, "First 'I'll take it' gets it," and sell to someone via PM or email without updating your ad and someone posts they'll take it, that's on you. We will not be party to a dispute, but you WILL lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace as a minimum since you failed to follow your own conditions.
C. You must list a price, and make it easily visible, not just lost in the description. Ads without a price will be deleted. It is ok to list a price and OBO (or best offer); however, no auction-style listings
D. As noted in item #4, provide ALL and ACCURATE details. i.e color, size, caliber, year, make, model, condition, defects, etc
E. Post pictures, or at least the links to them. If you are unable to post pics, then make them available via e-mail.
F. List shipping, pick-up or delivery options for the buyer, as well as cost.
G. Be sure to mark your ad as "SOLD" once the items are sold.
8. Do not bump ads older than 90 days without moderator approval. Ads older than 90 days will be locked if they get bumped.
9. Do not bump an ad more than once within a 24-hour period. Ads bumped multiple times within 24 hours will be locked or deleted. Members who continually do this will have their ads locked or deleted, and will lose your privilege to post in the Marketplace.
10. Remove previous bump posts so as to keep the size of the threads to a minimum. Nobody wants to have to search through 4+ pages of "Bump" or "ttt" posts simply to find information on the item listed.
If not removed, mods will remove them and/or delete the thread if it gets out of hand.
11. If you commit to buy or sell, please contact the seller or buyer within 24 hours with a PM or email to make arrangements.
12. If an item is sold, please mark the thread as such. This will help eliminate the old threads coming back up, as well as help those looking for specific items.
13. For WTB items anywhere in the Marketplace:
- Only respond to a WTB ad if you possess the requested item or have specific knowledge of that item’s availability. For example, do not post, “Check eBay” or “Check Gunbroker.”
- Once you have found/purchased the item(s) desired, delete the thread so as to not waste other members' time and allow for other threads to have visibility.
14. Keep the classified threads clean of extraneous/fluff comments and questions, regardless of how innocent or praiseworthy. This prevents derailing the thread and generating wasteful, opinionated discussions, as well as surreptitious bumping of threads.
If you have a technical or knowledge question relating to a listed item, start a new thread or search and add to an existing thread.
If you want to thank or praise a seller or item, DON'T do it in the sale thread as it unnecessarily bumps a stale thread, and said comments will be deleted. Instead, do the person the courtesy of posting in the Buyer/Seller Feedback section here: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Basically, if you don't have a question DIRECTLY related to a sale/trade/purchase of a specific thread, don't post! And this particularly applies to stomping a member’s ad concerning their asking price as there is a tendency to post negative replies when someone lists an item for sale that others consider overpriced.
We will not tolerate members stomping another member's ad concerning their asking price.
This also includes posting low-ball offers. If you want to make an offer lower than the asking price, even if it states OBO, do it via PM or email.
If an item is sold and the listing member deleted the price (which is their prerogative) and you want to know what the price was, do NOT post in the thread…send the member a PM.
Those who continually stomp or hijack other member's ads will face temporary, and even permanent suspension of their forum privileges.
15. No duplicate or multiple threads in different sections for the same item. Pick one section, the most applicable, and post there. Additional duplicate threads will be deleted.
16. You may not use the signature block function to solicit purchases, trades and/or sales. That is why we have the Marketplace...post a thread with your specific WTB, WTS, WTT ad.
You may have up to two lines stating you are looking or searching for a particular rifle/weapon and serial number.
As with individual posts, signature blocks/lines are subject to the same forum rules and will be handled accordingly if they violate any forum rules, policies/procedures or take up too much room of a post.
OTHER TIPS/GUIDELINES
- Buyers and Sellers should verify each other’s identity before sending money and/or products. If possible, get each other’s phone number and have a quick conversation to confirm the transaction details.
- As a suggestion: sellers should consider using delivery confirmation to avoid conflicts from buyers; saying they never received the products.
- Buyers, get to know the seller a little before you blindly send cash. If something does not seem right; it probably isn't. If something seems too good to be true; it probably is. Contact a moderator or report a thread/post that appears to be a scam.
- Respect fellow members. This section is a great place to support/help out fellow members and occasionally make new friends. Please be respectful to your fellow members. Maybe try selling here to a member instead of eBay, maybe save them a buck or two. If you have any questions, problems or concerns feel free to contact a moderator or admin.
- We do not require members to keep ads, or keep a listing price in the thread. It is your ad, so you are free to delete it at your discretion, as well as remove the asking price if you so desire. If someone is curious about the price for what an item sold, contact the seller via PM…do NOT post in thread.
- Lastly, don't forget the <b>Buyer/Seller Feedback section</b> http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Be sure to express a good or bad experience with your buyer or seller, and let others know what to expect. Also be sure to check there for a member if you are concerned BEFORE you buy.
MODERATION RULES/ENFORCEMENT
1. All spammers get banned instantly and permanently.
2. Inappropriate or out of hand threads shall be closed with or without reason posted for the closure or deleted at the discretion of the Mods/Admins.
3. If you cannot follow the rules set forth, your posts may be deleted, removed, or edited by the Moderators.
4. If you repeatedly do not follow the rules set forth, you will be banned from this section or from the CMP Forum for any length of time from 2 days to permanently, at the discretion of the Moderators.
NOTE: These rules can change at any time. Administrators and Moderators have the right to make any decision that fits the website and its users.
DISCLAIMER
The CMP, any of its staff and forum administrators/moderators assume NO liability or responsibility for Marketplace transactions. Members will use at their own risk, and CMP will not be responsible for any disputes or claims between members involving a transaction.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program forum is intended primarily to be a technically-oriented website for professional, courteous, and intellectual discussion of CMP matches, activities, firearms and related events. We are an online community founded by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, of all ages and walks of life. Remember that we have youth CMP participants who view this site. Please enjoy your stay and with your help, we can make the CMP Forums safe for all.
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CMP Staff
Couple of questions about CMP 1911's to be auctioned
Couple of questions about CMP 1911's to be auctioned
Ok, I don't remember seeing this question posted, and yes I did do a search. When does the CMP 1911 program plan on posting up 1911's for auction? I assume the auctions won't happen until sometime after October 5th so the random lottery numbers can be provided, or will it be open season for whoever is willing to "pay the piper" so to speak?
I seem to remember Mark saying that the winners of the auction would have to submit their order packet to CMP 1911 like anyone else trying to purchase a CMP 1911, but I don't remember him saying if the auction winners order packet had to be submitted in advance or not.
It was posted a while back that if they have an auction it will be after the sell. If you are only going to bid on an auction pistol you don't have to send a packet unless you win the bid. If you submit a packet and get a low number you have to decided which you want can't have both.
Ok, I don't remember seeing this question posted, and yes I did do a search. When does the CMP 1911 program plan on posting up 1911's for auction? I assume the auctions won't happen until sometime after October 5th so the random lottery numbers can be provided, or will it be open season for whoever is willing to "pay the piper" so to speak?
I seem to remember Mark saying that the winners of the auction would have to submit their order packet to CMP 1911 like anyone else trying to purchase a CMP 1911, but I don't remember him saying if the auction winners order packet had to be submitted in advance or not.
So if you want to cut to the head of the line, bid for one at auction I guess.
Oh I have no desire to bid on one. Was just wanting to make sure how things were going to go down. I'll be watching the auctions just to see what they put up, but I have zero desire to pay what I would consider beyond a premium for one.
Agreed, but I'd feel a lot better about things if the bidders have to get their paperwork in during the same time frame as us common folk.
They do. The winning bidder has to submit a completed and correct packet and pass the background check before the pistol is shipped.
The other side of the coin is this; if I end up with a relatively high number and I don't want to wait until a future allotment, I may be more inclined to bid on an auction.
I guess I'm following two thought paths. Many of us have gone through a lot of trouble to "jump through the hoops" specified by CMP to get a correct package in on time during the very narrow 30-day window specified to be able to purchase one of these pistols using the lottery option. To allow the folks using the auction to submit their packages at any time, outside the 30-day window just seems unfair to me. It's like cutting the line for a movie or concert where there are limited seats.
Also, more importantly, it's a numbers game. CMP has about 8000 pistols now, and might get up to 100,000 over an 8-12 year basis. So you have a fixed number of pistols. With the use of the 30-day window to submit packages, you also then have a fixed number of people who can buy the pistols. If you allow packages to be submitted after the 30 day window for those who buy using the auction option, the number of people who are allowed to buy is no longer fixed, it's increased. At the end of the process, on a 1:1 basis, those allowed to submit their paperwork outside of the 30-day window will knock off one applicant who has waited patiently in line for months or year.
Isn't CMP1911 processing the 1911's received and making a determination of which pistols will be available for the lottery and which will be available to the auction site? If so, then there are two different universes of pistols available for purchase that are interconnected only by the paperwork requirements. If you submitted for a lottery pistol and end up purchasing an auction pistol, you lose your lottery standing. If you get a lottery pistol, you cannot get an auction pistol. That seems fair.
Conversely, the way I see it from your point of view, if all interested parties submitted now, then only those who submitted could either get a lottery pistol or bid on the auction and no one else. That keeps the universe of bidders as a fixed number. You need to remember that as these pistols are released from the Army to CMP, the process repeats itself. CMP will not know the quality of the items until received, and will now know quantities available for either lottery or auction until they have gone through them.
I have my lottery packet in. I love looking at the auction items, but unfortunately for me, I do not have enough disposable income to afford most of those items. I am almost certain it will that way for the 1911s as well.
With any auction item, whoever is the winning bidder submits their packet AFTER auction closes. CMP gives you 30 days to submit packet for auction. So in this case with the 1911s, if any are auctioned (I'm sure there will be some), they are going to sell for way more than the service grade price of a $1k. I think that warrants the winning bidder, who might not have sent in a packet during the standard window, to submit their packet at that time. If you want to guarantee yourself a pistol and not deal with the lottery, then I would plan to dish out some cash for an auction item. Just like any other rare firearm that comes through the CMP channels.
I look at the auctions as separate from the mail order items available from the CMP. Most of the time the items on auction are rarer and harder to find, and even when a more common items show up on the auctions tend to bring more money than they really should. I think there are a couple of reasons for this. People are using the auctions as a way to donate to the CMP, and of course you always have people who get into bidding wars.
I myself don't have a problem with the auctions being a separate order packet because I bet you dollars to doughnuts there will be quite a few non-paying bidders. No need for the CMP to go through more paperwork for someone who isn't going to complete the auction process IMHO. People get caught up in the moment in a bidding war, and then don't follow through. We've all seen it happen on the CMP, eBay and Gunbroker.
Many of us have gone through a lot of trouble to "jump through the hoops" specified by CMP to get a correct package in on time during the very narrow 30-day window specified to be able to purchase one of these pistols using the lottery option.
What is required could hardly be considered "jumping through hoops". Anyone purchasing an auction item will also have to complete all the same information. In what century is a 30 day window for mail delivery "narrow"? Are you sending your package by horseback messenger?
To allow the folks using the auction to submit their packages at any time, outside the 30-day window just seems unfair to me. It's like cutting the line for a movie or concert where there are limited seats.
Those auction folks are also going to be paying 2-3 times more than the lottery folks. I guess that's not fair, either. Maybe CMP should just start pricing at $2000 for rackers and skip the auction all together. Then it would be "fair"
Also, more importantly, it's a numbers game. CMP has about 8000 pistols now, and might get up to 100,000 over an 8-12 year basis. So you have a fixed number of pistols. With the use of the 30-day window to submit packages, you also then have a fixed number of people who can buy the pistols. If you allow packages to be submitted after the 30 day window for those who buy using the auction option, the number of people who are allowed to buy is no longer fixed, it's increased. At the end of the process, on a 1:1 basis, those allowed to submit their paperwork outside of the 30-day window will knock off one applicant who has waited patiently in line for months or year.
Huh?? It's one pistol per LIFETIME. The number of people that can purchase is absolutely limited to exactly the number of pistols received. items going to auction are going no matter what. They aren't going to be part of the lottery sales, so no one "patiently waiting" has been skipped over at all. If someone that is waiting doesn't want to wait anymore, they can go ahead and purchase their once in a lifetime pistol on auction.
The primary purpose of CMP firearm sales is to make money to fund the many other programs they have. They are doing a good job of balancing the funding goal with the effort to fairly distribute the firearms to people who will use them to promote civilian marksmanship.
In my dealings with CMP I have been both lucky and unlucky but have always been satisfied. Life is not fair but the CMP is (IMHO).
What is required could hardly be considered "jumping through hoops". Anyone purchasing an auction item will also have to complete all the same information. In what century is a 30 day window for mail delivery "narrow"? Are you sending your package by horseback messenger?
Those auction folks are also going to be paying 2-3 times more than the lottery folks. I guess that's not fair, either. Maybe CMP should just start pricing at $2000 for rackers and skip the auction all together. Then it would be "fair"
Huh?? It's one pistol per LIFETIME. The number of people that can purchase is absolutely limited to exactly the number of pistols received. items going to auction are going no matter what. They aren't going to be part of the lottery sales, so no one "patiently waiting" has been skipped over at all. If someone that is waiting doesn't want to wait anymore, they can go ahead and purchase their once in a lifetime pistol on auction.
And your last statement is exactly about what I understood from Marks's comments. You had to submit the paperwork now to try for either one. An auction pistol or a lottery pistol. As there is a finite number of them to be available in both cases. Now CMP1911Admin says that they can be sent later for the auction ones. That does cut the number of chances that are available to those who sent them in during the 9/4/ to 10/4 opening. Which is why my questions were asked before and many here scoffed at them. Because now instead of say 75,000 who send in their packets now, they also have to battle those who couldn't be bothered to do it until they see what may be auctioned.
You are correct. All who are interested in owning a 1911 type pistol from CMP should send in paperwork 4 September thru 4 October, 2018.
Key word is from the second sentence and is the first word, "All". And
If the customer declines the grade available, their name will be removed from the list and they will be kicked off the island into the abyss with all others who do not receive a 1911A1 from CMP.
So has there been a change in the way things are going to be handled since June?
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