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  #21  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:48 AM
Blurry Blurry is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Front Royal, VIRGINIA
Posts: 328
Default High

The high impact on inclines and declines makes perfect sense. Shorter distance horizontally. Interesting to know that was considered when designing/setting up the M14. Thank you for that input as well!
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  #22  
Old 08-16-2019, 02:40 PM
Blurry Blurry is offline
 
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Location: Front Royal, VIRGINIA
Posts: 328
Default High

Received the extra front sight from Fulton day before yesterday. Now to do some reduction work. Just seems kinda strange to me to need to do this with a new rifle. Wish me luck. Hope to get to a range Monday and see what happens.
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  #23  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:19 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Location: Denver, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Brown View Post
Having a few clicks of elevation at 100 yards allows for variations in ammunition and range conditions. Military manuals recommend eight clicks of elevation at 200 yards. Most custom builders prefer to keep the elevation a little below spec so the sight won't be excessively high when shooting at mid or long range. When the sight is set at the bottom, zero clicks, the aperture will appear out of round which makes it difficult to get a good sight picture.
Sir:
In which manual does it outline this recommendation?
I'm not familiar with such a requirement.

Instead, being a competitive shooter who started with an M1A, having the rear sight low (but still with 3-6 or so clicks available) meant the rear sight wasn't as high at distance and you could still make zero adjustments as needed.

But the OP didn't mention that he was shooting longer range...………….

Quote:
Originally Posted by M14 View Post
Other than what Ted pointed out, the reason the M1/M14 was designed this way was to allow for shooting on inclines and mountain warfare.

When firing at an angle, uphill or downhill, and especially at extended ranges, your rounds will always hit high. The sight design set at 8 moa up for 100 yd. zero, allows you to lower it and get on target.
Same thing...………. What manual were/are these "mountain warfare" comments coming from?
Never heard anything like that at all...… but I'm willing to learn something new.

OP:
My suggestion is to NOT zero the sights so the rear is bottomed out.
Unless you are certain that is the only distance and ammunition you will shoot.

You should have a few (say 3-6 clicks) clicks for various ammunition you might shoot, different zeros etc.

In fact sitting higher could mean you get a better cheek weld behind the sight, where if you are bottomed out, you might find the cheek weld forced.

Nor would I worry about all this unless you are shooting 300yds+...…. yes the rear sits high but if you are only shooting to 1-200yds, it wont matter.

FWIW.... I was running around 10-14 clicks up from bottom, IIRC, and had no issues shooting out to 600yds. 1000yds had the front filed way down.

If you really want my suggestion on how to set up the rear sight for best results, read on, if not feel free to pass:

This is an adaptation of the process of setting up match sights but it is what I did when I was serious about shooting the M1A...……

Decide what position you are going to shoot the M1A the most in or what is most important to you. For me it was prone, slung up, traditional Service Rifle. For you it might be off a bench. whatever. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THIS IN THE POSITION YOU WILL SHOOT THE RIFLE.

Go to a range or wherever you can get set up and play with the rifle.

Run the rear sight all the way down and now get into your position, with eyes closed and once settled into your "perfect position," open your eyes. What should happen is the rear sight will be low in your field of view and as you progressively click it up, it will move into your natural focus point of your eye and then above it.

If you are consistent with your position, cheek weld and overall head position.... you'll find a range of clicks where you aren't straining or forcing your head down or up to naturally look thru the rear sight.

That is where you want your primary zero to be. Say you find that between (i'll just use random numbers here) 30-35 clicks up is your "comfort zone." So then, put the rear in the comfort zone, ensure you have wiggle room (enough clicks up/down for different ammo etc) and zero windage on the rear.

Now go to live fire...…..
File and move front sight for final elevation and windage.
Done.
You have zeroed sights, with room to spare and a good, natural, consistent cheek/stock weld on the rifle.
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Last edited by Big_Red; 08-17-2019 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Combine consecutive posts
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  #24  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:51 PM
Blurry Blurry is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Front Royal, VIRGINIA
Posts: 328
Default Low

Gewehr43,
Thank you for giving me your time like that. I am soaking ALL of this information up. I am going to go slowly as I have time. I think I will primarily be shooting 200 yds and less, but I want to be able to stretch out to 500+ when the opportunity presents. I have shot some ďfunĒ matches with the M1 and A3 and purchased this rifle to shoot as well. Iím currently going through some issues with my back and position shooting has been problematic. Have to shoot off a bench when I can and that is at 100 yds. Iíve a lot to learn and you are all aiding me in the process and I appreciate it. I was a sailor and we didnít get much time with rifles back then so Iíve started late. Still lots of fun. Thanks again, God bless.
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:47 PM
Blurry Blurry is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Front Royal, VIRGINIA
Posts: 328
Default Better

Okay. Got to shoot to 100 yds today. I took the front sight blade down quite a bit. Now the rifle shoots PMI into the black of a SR-1 with a 6 oíclock hold and eight clicks of elevation. Iím thinking of taking more off of the front perhaps to get to four or perhaps six clicks. All preliminary to really going shooting. Lots of work to do yet. Was hot n humid this day! Thanks to all and I am certainly going to be asking more questions as I go.
Be happy, God bless.
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  #26  
Old 08-20-2019, 04:06 AM
nf1e nf1e is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Connecticut
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You're on the right track. Congratulations on getting her set up.
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  #27  
Old 08-20-2019, 11:13 AM
Blurry Blurry is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Front Royal, VIRGINIA
Posts: 328
Talking Set up

Thank you guys. I figure I was given two ears, two eyes, and one mouth. I attempt to use them proportionally.... sometimes I am successful!
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  #28  
Old 08-22-2019, 07:00 PM
Ted Brown Ted Brown is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Jacksonville, OR
Posts: 506
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Actually the information on zeroing the sights won't be found in the usual 223 manuals as they are not intended to give guidance in shooting or zeroing the rifle. Sight zeroing and recommended adjustments to set up mechanical, no wind, and range condition zeros is found in both coaching guidelines and maintenance instructions provided to advanced marksmanship team members by the AMU and NGMU. The zeroing instructions are intended to insure NM rifles used by these members will shoot to the target center from a basic setting within a minimal amount of error when the rifle sights are set to mechanical zero. Elevations are kept to a minimum (not bottomed out) to avoid excessive height of the aperture when shooting mid to long range. This helps avoid neck and eye strain.

No mater how bad a time you are having coaching your team, don't start crying. To do so usually has an adverse effect upon your shooters confidence in your ability.
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  #29  
Old 10-19-2019, 07:16 AM
ROC ROC is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROC View Post
Mine shoots way high but I was shooting 147gr ammo I bought for my BM59 clone that I recently sold. I'm trying 168gr next to see how much difference it makes. I was all the way down on the rear and still high with 147. Had to use the bottom of the 200yd target at 100yds to be on paper.
Update: New stock corrected the issue. Went from synthetic to USGI wood. Same ammo printing about a 2" group.
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