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  #1  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:48 PM
218bee 218bee is online now
 
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Default 1905 original finish question..(1920 bayo)..pic

Have a 1920-made SA 1905 bayo, still 16". Question is from what I read in Cunningham's Bayo Points, the finish looks original, with the parkerizing and two tone ricasso. Even the SA grinding marks jive, as they go in two directions, exactly like Gary states. However, if you look close all along the edge, you will see light grinding marks. They seem to be under the finish so that's why I'm asking. If they ground through the parkerizing and the edge was bright, that's one thing. The edge is perfectly straight, and dark like the rest of the blade. Can anyone say with certainty if they are factory or done after it left SA? Other than these tiny marks, its really museum quality.

Thanks very much













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  #2  
Old 09-30-2019, 01:47 PM
guncotton guncotton is offline
 
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http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread....ncotton&page=2


I own an identical 1905 bayonet of 1920 MFG. The above discussion about my bayonet may address your question. Otherwise I'm not quite sure what you are trying to ascertain.

Regards

Last edited by guncotton; 09-30-2019 at 01:56 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2019, 02:48 PM
218bee 218bee is online now
 
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Thanks Guncotton. Unfortunately (unless I missed it) your post doesnt clearly address the tiny scratches under the finish, also I cant get any of the pics to work from the 10 year old Photobucket album link in the thread.
Thanks very much for the effort, but I'm after someone who has a known mint condition 1905 bayo that might have tiny scratches or minute grind marks present, under the finish, like they were done at SA then the parkerization applied.
Just curious because I want to sell this and be able to tell the buyer if its original or not, and give an honest description .

Last edited by 218bee; 10-01-2019 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:32 PM
guncotton guncotton is offline
 
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Hey 218bee,

Maybe this discussion will clarify. I'm as the 2-tone appearance may be evidence of blade refinish, tempering process or SA blade polishing procedure before original finish. Arrgh!!!!

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...blued-version/

Because of the different lighting conditions, and poor tehnique encountered in photographs, it is nearly impossible to determine whether or not a blade is blued or parkerized. As for your 1920 dated M1905, the reason for the color difference you described is that almost all of the 1905 bayonets still in service were re-parkerized. Many people will tell you this was done in preparation for WWII, but this was done in many cases long before the war. The blades were literally dipped into the chemical tanks up to the ricasso, which left its original finish just ahead of the cross guard untouched, thus the two tone appearance. So, when you look at a 1905 bayonet, check that area just ahead of the cross guard. In an excellent photograph, you will be able to see if the blade has been redone or not. A good original blade will have a clearly uniform finish from the cross guard to the end of the blade. I learned from Gary Cunningham's book that 1905 bayonets dated before 1917 will have a bright blade, so if you see a parkerized blade within those dates, then it has been refinished. Now, just to make sure we are still confused, I also learned than some of the early bayonets were blued. In that case, I suppose a great photograph of a mint specimen will show an obviously shiny blued blade, but if the bayonet is even somewhat worn, then it might be very difficult to tell if it is blued or re-parked. Thanks for your time. As always, if I have any of the facts wrong, someone please chime in to correct me. I love learning new stuff in this bazaar hobby in which I find myself.
Marv

Bayonetman:
5. The "two tone" finish mentioned on the 1920 dated bayonet is a result of the method of polishing the blade. The area of the ricasso where the markings are was polished across the blade, the rest of the blade was polished along the blade. This results in the ricasso area being lighter in color than the rest of the blade and is normally only found on bayonets dated 1919 to 1921. Later refinishes were not polished in that pattern and will not normally show the difference in color. The difference may also be in the way the blade was tempered, but I have not seen any factual information about that. But there had to be some difference as the color change occurs on the blade before the polish changes to some degree. One earlier author (an Ordnance officer) referred to this as a "temper line" but offered no further information. The photo below illustrates this fairly well - look at which way the "scratches" run on the ricasso and on the blade.

Last edited by guncotton; 10-01-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:52 AM
sergeant major sergeant major is offline
 
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I have a CMP SA 16" (uncut) bayonet dated 1908, SN#356326...looks just like yours. The area next to the ricasso was polished acrossed the blade, seems like this was a common practice with Springfield (I'm no expert, just saying).
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:08 PM
218bee 218bee is online now
 
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Ok...Many thanks Guncotton & Sgt. Major. Will take this intel and come up with a description & price.
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