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Old 08-06-2016, 03:20 AM
gmerkt gmerkt is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonds Washington
Posts: 325

Just to follow along with this story, I went ahead and registered on the CGN site. What a saga it is. If those proof house marks are genuine, it's difficult to imagine that technicians doing the testing wouldn't have noticed some of the defects. John, the owner of Marstar appears clueless re. liability issues with these rifles. Given the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know about the defects in workmanship, a recall of all such sold should have been instituted once they became known. In my reading of the 70-some-odd pages in the CGN thread, Marstar is taking back rifles and refunding the purchase price but not shipping (from or to) which is a considerable expense. There is evidence that Marstar may have put returned rifles and cancelled orders up for resale; at one time, they claimed to be sold out but adds offering the rifles again turned up after that. A very big mess with potentially a lot of complicity to spread around. Caveat emptor always applies.
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Old 08-06-2016, 12:35 PM
ZBeast ZBeast is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31

This fiasco has made all Garand hobbyist builders look bad. We here in Canada have enough government crap to deal with concerning guns and to have one of our own turn on us for a profit is truly reprehensible. Now his website is down. Coincidence? I think not.
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Old 08-06-2016, 12:55 PM
kwansao kwansao is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gun Free Safe Zone, CA
Posts: 85

i don't think this makes gun owners look bad.

if anything, i'd like to think the expertise and honesty of hobbyist garand shooters and builders has helped to expose marstar and hauck waffenbau's negligent and deceptive business practices.

to address concerns about the RCMP and a potential backlash against gun owners...

to use an analogy, if a company releases poorly built cars onto the market, the government should not restrict on private car ownership. somehow canadians tolerate this, and i hope that changes soon.

Last edited by kwansao; 08-06-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 08-06-2016, 10:47 PM
Ericc Ericc is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,487

Hopefully there aren't too many of those rifles in that condition in use or contemplating being used. That bolt photo is just cringe-worthy.
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Old 08-10-2016, 12:31 PM
kwansao kwansao is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gun Free Safe Zone, CA
Posts: 85

More horrible pictures:

Originally Posted by tootall View Post
I was asked by a member here to take a look at his rifles. He purchased three of them, and had intended to sell one to his friend.
Incidentally, the friend is a former co-worker of mine that I stay in touch with.
The member her needed help posting photos, so these photos are his. I will post some that I took of his guns later.


I do not have a dog in the fight.
I did not buy one of these guns, but I have bought lots of other stuff from Marstar over the years.
In fact, I have good memories of reading and ordering stuff from Can Access to Firearms ad paper well before CGN was a thing.
As noted above, I am assisting a friend of a friend.

I found this member to be knowledgeable, and rational. Certainly not a whiner, troublemaker, attention seeker or professional dickhead.

These are his celpics, along with his comments in italics, and my own observations.
At first glance, these look like really nice rifles. The wood is not at all banged up from decades of use. And the Parkerizing is very nice as well.
So much for first glance.

Upon closer inspection, issues arise...

This is the first rifle we looked at. Pic shows gap and light shining through at left lug

By placing a light below, this photo shows the complete lack of contact between the port/left locking lug and the receiver.
The left lug is floating, not carrying half the load.

Another pic showing gap at left lug


Pic of the right lug showing lack of bearing surface and gap

http://i.imgur.com/pOZqXdu.jpg <<
This is the same rifle as above, the first we examined.
Although the light did not leak past the right lug in the first 2 pics, the starboard/right lug is FAR from good.
Notice the angle that the lug is ground at. (The smaller area closest to the viewer is the part that engages the oprod. Look just beyond this.)
The angle of the lug nowhere nearly matches the receiver. All of the load would be focused at the upper portion of the lug.
I was gobsmacked when I saw this. (and I dont get a chance to say gobsmacked often...)

Here is a pic of the bolt from the second rifle we looked at. It shows the grinding gouge on the extractor really well.

If the photo is enlarged, there can be seen a slight grind mark on the extractor. We took this to suggest that the bolt was complete when it was belt sanded, and the extractor got tagged by the belt.
It also shows what appears to be beltsanded area on the front of the lugs.
We examined the bolts by slowly moving them around in bright light and noticing the reflections.
There were noticeable waves in the shiny areas, indicating to us (We are both steel fabricators, BTW) that these surfaces had been belt sanded.

Barrel gap and droop on first rifle at receiver

This was clearly visible on one gun, but was not an issue with the other two.
It certainly looks as though the barrel is not seated against the face of the receiver at the top...

Last edited by kwansao; 08-10-2016 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 08-11-2016, 06:51 AM
FluffyTheCat FluffyTheCat is offline
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 451

Originally Posted by Hey Yo' View Post
Junk is as junk does.
Actually, some very high quality parts were ruined by an idiot.
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:19 PM
kwansao kwansao is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gun Free Safe Zone, CA
Posts: 85

Some of the worst pictures to date

Originally Posted by tootall View Post
To follow up on my post #903, here are some more photos.
As mentioned earlier, the first batch of photos were from the owner.
These ones here are my photos of his rifles.
I took many photos but there is no point in duplicating the views already shown.
Hopefully these give some different insight.

This shows brass shim stock inserted behind the lug.
Each strip is .003" ("three thou") and it was easy enough to insert five pieces for a total of .015" or fifteen thou.

Similar test on left lug

Drill cuttings "swarf" that looks very recent.

One of the three guns had a bolt that was sanded/ground on the side of the left lug.
Also notice the waviness in the area just behind. It looks as though it was given a light belt sanding, then sanded again at a slightly different angle or position.
This gives a distinct pattern when held in direct light.

Close-up of the rear of the right lug.
A couple of weld porosity holes are visible.
Also note the smooth shiny area and the area with straight parallel lines.
We suspect that the weldment is much softer than the ordnance alloy steel, and that the force of the proof round indented the soft lug area against the proper hardness receiver.

In this view, a gouge likely from a belt sander can be seen.
It carved a nick at the base of the lug.
In steel fab terms, this would be considered undercut and is bad because a crack could start there.
When "coping" a beam, it is poor practice to have a sharp corner as it causes stress risers.
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:12 PM
Ohio Don Ohio Don is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: S Florida and SE Ohio
Posts: 4,153

The thread is now locked and the Marstar banner is gone off of the pages.
NRA Life member
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,RSO
US Army Transportation and Medical Corps Museums Life member
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:39 PM
ZBeast ZBeast is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31

It appears that the offending dealer has left the CGN site. Other threads regarding this issue are being locked. Looks like all involved are bailing with still no recall of the faulty/dangerous firearms. Please keep this issue alive until we know what the final outcome is.
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:21 PM
kwansao kwansao is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gun Free Safe Zone, CA
Posts: 85


Continuation of the dicussion after CGN started censoring posts...

So far no recall and buyers still being stiffed shipping fees.
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