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  #11  
Old 10-18-2017, 05:21 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Every case is different (pun intended) and certainly, "HXP" is no exception. There are infinite variations of initial production/forming, storage, chamber/rifle, resizing, loads, etc. Loaded until failure, most but not all will fail with neck splits. I did experience a number of splits through the extractor groove (not the web) in one specific group of mixed HXP that I loaded for a 1917. These were bad failures with considerable gas leakage. I have still not determined the combination of factors causing this incident, the rifle has been checked over, but not fired since (pending a bolt change). I doubt I will ever have a sure explanation. Still, HXP has an excellent overall record. Keeping case batches together and discarding after a number of cycles would be ideal, but would not really be any guarantee against the occasional anomaly. Good Shooting. ...
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  #12  
Old 02-18-2018, 06:05 PM
ma96782 ma96782 is offline
 
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Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 198
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What he said above.

+++++


BTW, I reload by lot. How does that work?

OK....say that I've just opened a "new can" and removed 100 rounds out of a 500 rd can. All the ammo contained is from the same lot#. Right.

So, I shoot that lot of 100 cartridges. That brass is kept together. And now they are "once fired brass."

I reload the brass from that lot. Keeping all of the 100 cases together. I repeat the process, X number of times.

Then, on the X+ time of reloading (example: the 4th reloading), I start to get problems. Say that I get a total of a 5% failure rate (it's an example, you decide what failure rate you want). That is 5 cases, out of 100 cases (for the math hindered folks). Right. It, doesn't matter to me how the cases failed. It's 5 failed cases, out of the 100 case lot. So, when I hit that, "magic failure rate number," the entire lot of brass get's dumped.

If it was only 1, 2, 3, or 4 cases that failed. Maybe, I'd still reload all of the remaining cases or maybe not. It's all about the RISK that I'm willing to take. YOU decide how you want to do this. You can choose your own "magic number."

Then……
Remember that I first started out with 100 cases that was removed from a brand new can? Right. So, what about the remaining 400 rounds?

Logically then (assuming everything is the same)…..since I know that I got a 5% failure rate at X+ reloads (in the example it was the 4th reloading). Then, if I don’t like tempting faith….maybe, I should dump this next lot upon reaching the 3rd reloading?

Ok.....that's how I roll. I mean, "Why risk damage to my rifle or injury to myself?"

Aloha, Mark

PS….open up another new can (assuming a different lot#) and things may/will probably differ from your past experience. So, start the process over again.

Last edited by ma96782; 06-07-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-28-2018, 01:29 PM
la Fiere la Fiere is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern California - SF peninsula
Posts: 1,802
Default Another Shoulder Failure

Had another HXP case fail at the shoulder on Saturday.


The first one was HXP 62, this one was HXP 69. Both cases had been reloaded too many times to count.


There were a good number of trouble-free rounds between the two failures. Still, I wonder if there is something about the die I'm using, or the chamber of my rifle that is contributing.











Last edited by la Fiere; 05-28-2018 at 01:38 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-28-2018, 04:32 PM
mycanoe44 mycanoe44 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southern MN, Owatonna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la Fiere View Post
Had another HXP case fail at the shoulder on Saturday.


The first one was HXP 62, this one was HXP 69. Both cases had been reloaded too many times to count.


There were a good number of trouble-free rounds between the two failures. Still, I wonder if there is something about the die I'm using, or the chamber of my rifle that is contributing.
Did the neck stay in the chamber and did the next round try to chamber? I would think that would really jam that separated neck in there.

The jagged brittle edge on that case appears to be "work hardening" from too many reloads "working" the neck and shoulder area with out annealing to soften the brass. Same as split necks and cracking just above the web of the case. The case body cannot be annealed so that is unavoidable.

My deer rifle is a .257 Roberts that has been cut to the 40 degree Ackley Improved version. When fired, one side of the case just forward of the web protrudes very slightly, after resizing this is removed. After 2 or 3 reloads using cheap Remington or Winchester brass, I will see some fine cracks in that area from "working" the brass too much.

If you have a generous chamber in the shoulder area and are full length resizing, it would work that area more than a tight chamber resizing would. I use Forster dies and they have adjusted them for me after I sent them 3 fired cases so it doesn't work the brass as much. This is only when you are going to use that die for that specific rifle.

It may pay for you to keep track of # of reloads for your competition ammo to avoid this happening at a match, or at all. I think 10 or more reloads out of a case is getting more than your moneys worth.
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  #15  
Old 05-28-2018, 05:43 PM
la Fiere la Fiere is offline
 
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Location: Northern California - SF peninsula
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The first time the neck stuck in the chamber but came out with my chamber brush.



On Saturday it happened when firing with a clip. The neck stuck in the chamber like before but the next round jammed into it and wouldn't chamber. The neck piece came out with the second round (wrapped around the ogive of the bullet).


I think the chamber on my rifle is tight. It is a relatively new Krieger barrel that I reamed to just close on the GO gauge.



I still think you're right about overworking the shoulder. This is probably an artifact of multiple re-sizings with a full-length die.


Agree on segregating "match" brass. The first time this happened it came very close to costing me a gold medal.
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2018, 08:56 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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I have seen cases fail in this manner before and do not have a good explanation. I would agree that shoulder embrittlement appears to be a significant factor. The sizing die, die setting and chamber dimensions would be the usual suspects. Strange things happen during the sizing process; shoulder internal doughnuts, X die effects...... I would be concerned if this happened much and look further for an explanation, probably starting with the sizing die....and maybe run a finish reamer into the rifle chamber for a light cleanup followed by a steel wool finish. A tight "match chamber" neck dimension in a GSV rifle is not helpful. Might consider a tight patch with lapping compound and a drill to polish off any sharp areas of the internal shoulder in the sizing die. Would also remove the decapping/neck expander stem and check to see if the die is excessively reducing the neck diameter. Annealing could help (or possibly make things worse), but lack of it is certainly not the primary problem. Good Shooting. ...

Last edited by ceresco; 05-29-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:20 AM
leeshall leeshall is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 13
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Properly done annealing is your friend. Too many firings without "proper" annealing will result in neck failures. Bend a coat hanger wire back & forth too many times and it breaks -- same thing happens with cartridge brass.
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  #18  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:42 AM
weimar_police weimar_police is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Spokane, WA
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i haven't reloaded in years

good information here, thank you gentlemen for sharing!
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