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Old 07-16-2019, 01:36 PM
CPD1979 CPD1979 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 99
Default 1963 hxp - ap?

Went to the range today with my favorite rifle . . the M1 Garand. I have the ability to shoot on a 100 yard range. I put up a bull's eye target to make sure that my rifle is shooting approximately where I want it and also I put up a rifle rated steel target. I usually shoot a combination of PPU and HXP. I use 1963 HXP to sight my rifle in and check for groups (they seem to like that stuff and I have a bunch of it) and then I start shooting the steel. I've done this as a routine for the last two years and have shot around 3000 rounds without so much as a hiccup.

Today I did the same routine . . I loaded a clip of '63 HXP and fired the first round at the steel (I do this to make sure I don't get that "flyer" guys talk about - could still be me anyway) and then shoot for a group on the bull to make sure my rifle is hitting near where I want it. I was shooting from a rest and usually I can get around 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups which is good for me. So . . I shot my first on on the steel and it didn't make the audible "clink" that I'm used to hearing but I then shot for my group on the bull. 4 rounds . . I made the "walk of shame" down to my target and noticed a great 3 round group of 3/4 inches. Wow! The only thing was that it was about 8" out at 11 o'clock. Weird since I was putting them in the 9 and 10 ring the week before.

Before I walked back I looked at the steel. Damned if there wasn't a nice big "melted" hole in my plate! This WAS and AP round. Seen it before. The HXP that I loaded in my clips the very day before came from unopened boxes taken from my plastic CMP ammo box (bought at the North Store) that I had previously been loading up from all this year with no problems. I immediately unloaded my rifle and checked the cases. ALL were 1963 HXP. There was NO black tip on any of the rounds. I would have noticed that. I have a few AP but they are no where near where I loaded my clips. Anyway . . these rounds came from these unopened boxes of 1963 HXP lot # 1010.

So if you're just punching paper it's ok. But if your gonna shoot steel . . beware. I have previously used "63 from this can on steel with no ill effects.

Strange . .

Brian
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Old 07-16-2019, 02:14 PM
RVN 69-70 RVN 69-70 is offline
 
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Default hmmmm..

ALL my 'regular' HXP 30.06 drill right through 1/4 steel plates as if it were butter.... and put a pretty small dimple in the AR steel plates

Are you thinking the '63 was AP? OR you KNOW it was AP....guess I don't understand your point....not the first time for me though...
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Last edited by RVN 69-70; 07-16-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2019, 02:43 PM
CPD1979 CPD1979 is offline
 
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RVN 69-70,

First . . thanks for your service, if I'm reading that correctly . . .

I use rifle rated steel plates (AR500 rated 3/8 inch,) which I have put thousands of '06 and 7.62X51 rounds on with not so much as a dimple. I have over 40 years in LE (10 in SWAT) and have shot AP on steel for purposes of testing on numerous occasions. I'm not saying that '63 HXP is AP. I've shot probably 1500 rounds of HXP, a lot of it '63 on this steel without any problem. I'm just saying that in this lot I got an AP loaded round with no black tip indicator. I think that the Greek guy who loaded this box must have had the previous night out drinking Ouzo. I'm not blaming anyone and no real harm done. I just want guys who are shooting steel with this stuff to be aware of this anomaly. Thanks for your input though . .

Brian
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:17 PM
Ammolab Ammolab is offline
 
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Were all your cases head stamped HXP-63? You did say unopened boxes..

I was unaware the Greeks made AP in 1963. Have we seen this?
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2019, 06:52 PM
RVN 69-70 RVN 69-70 is offline
 
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Default OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPD1979 View Post
RVN 69-70,

First . . thanks for your service, if I'm reading that correctly . . .

I use rifle rated steel plates (AR500 rated 3/8 inch,) which I have put thousands of '06 and 7.62X51 rounds on with not so much as a dimple. I have over 40 years in LE (10 in SWAT) and have shot AP on steel for purposes of testing on numerous occasions. I'm not saying that '63 HXP is AP. I've shot probably 1500 rounds of HXP, a lot of it '63 on this steel without any problem. I'm just saying that in this lot I got an AP loaded round with no black tip indicator. I think that the Greek guy who loaded this box must have had the previous night out drinking Ouzo. I'm not blaming anyone and no real harm done. I just want guys who are shooting steel with this stuff to be aware of this anomaly. Thanks for your input though . .

Brian

10-4 Copy
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:26 AM
CPD1979 CPD1979 is offline
 
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Ammolab,

I used unopened boxes of ammo and all cases were, and are marked HXP 1963 (I saved them - along with the rest of the rounds left in that clip (4) and 12 more rounds from another clip (8) and a partially loaded clip (4 HXP /4 S&B) which I had loaded from those last two boxes of ammo that I didn't shoot.) I don't know if the Greeks made AP or not. This is just an anomaly, a freak thing, that happened this one time as I have used '63 HXP and other years of HXP without any problem in the past. I even shot a full bando of '63 later (target then steel) which gave no problems.

Thanks for the question . .

Brian
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2019, 08:03 AM
edlmann edlmann is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPD1979 View Post
I use rifle rated steel plates (AR500 rated 3/8 inch,) which I have put thousands of '06 and 7.62X51 rounds on with not so much as a dimple.
Always a possibility that the plates weren't up to spec.
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:40 AM
CPD1979 CPD1979 is offline
 
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Appreciate your optimism edlmann . . but no . . as I have said I've been using these plates for two years with HXP, and my friend has been dinging it constantly with 7.62x51 and we haven't had any problems. I just came in from looking at the hole again in the steel in my garage. This hole was "melted" through by an AP round. It's approximately three times the diameter of an '06 round and looks like it was hit with a hot poker. Again . . melted completely through the plate. Looks like AP to me . .

Thanks,

Brian
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:52 AM
Ammolab Ammolab is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPD1979 View Post
Appreciate your optimism edlmann . . but no . . as I have said I've been using these plates for two years with HXP, and my friend has been dinging it constantly with 7.62x51 and we haven't had any problems. I just came in from looking at the hole again in the steel in my garage. This hole was "melted" through by an AP round. It's approximately three times the diameter of an '06 round and looks like it was hit with a hot poker. Again . . melted completely through the plate. Looks like AP to me . .

Thanks,

Brian
Brian: Strange, as a hole from AP is the size of the core...it is SMALLER than .308” diameter as only the core punches thru. The jacket and lead sheath are destroyed on impact. I have put AP on steel in testing since the 1960s..never experienced a M2 AP “melting” a large hole. 3 x .308” = almost an inch!
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  #10  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:35 PM
CPD1979 CPD1979 is offline
 
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Location: Ohio
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Ammolab,

Not discounting what you say at all. I went out and put a measure on the hole. It's 1/2". What else would melt a hole that size in AR500 plate coming from an '06? I still have about 16 rounds left from the clips I loaded from this box. I have a piece of this steel (not my plates, left over from a range remodel) that I'm going to try in the coming weeks the next time I hit the range. As I've said . . I've used this ammo for two years on these plates with no damage. I was surprised to see this. I'm aware of the steel core (7.62x51 AP,) we used to pick them out of the berm after shooting them. Still have some in my range bag. I'm perplexed.

Thanks,

Brian
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