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  #11  
Old 11-20-2015, 12:31 PM
S99VG S99VG is offline
 
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At this point I'll say no more other than I like navynambu's explanation. I'll also say he makes the Swede snipers look a lot more interesting, which for me is an easy slope to slip down as I have a soft spot for the 6.5.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2015, 02:18 PM
Calfed Calfed is offline
 
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Originally Posted by S99VG View Post
cresco - you just reiterated my point. The other modern components you mention (stocks, barrels, faux A4s) do not approach the degree of magnitude in technological advancement that modern optics provide. If we are going down this path, and following your logic, why not allow other rifles to use modern scopes of similar optical power to the originals - such as a 4X Zeis for the Swede or a 3X Leupold for A4 replicas? Is it about shooting or maintaining the aesthetics of originality, such as what the repro Unertls provide? If it's aesthetics of originality then I argue that a modern Criterion barrel really isn't going to give you the degree of "edge" that a repro Unertl packed with modern optics will. And if you are going to allow a modern scope into the game masquerading as an antique then let's level the playing field with the use of modern optics for all. Now I'm sure my response just opened up a big crap can of worms so let's please keep this to an academic discussion. Again, my apologies for going OT and I wish the OP well in finding the right Swede.

PS - I too hope the quest for the competitive edge doesn't keep all the interesting rifles at home. How boring would that be, plus I fear it would degenerate the game into something that only the guys with the big bucks could play in.
Most of the vintage snipers CAN use modern optics of equal power to the originals. Swedish vintage sniper rifles can use 4X Weavers and A4's can use Weaver 2.5X's.

I'm mulling over the use of a Weaver 4X on a faux Swedish sniper.
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2015, 05:00 PM
S99VG S99VG is offline
 
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Cool. I guess I stand corrected. Maybe now I too will jump into the game.
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2015, 08:18 PM
navynambu navynambu is offline
 
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I am no expert in this, and I apologize for getting my own post off track, and I might well be mistaken, and if I am I apologize, but my understanding of the rule is that the Swedish M41b (and other guns) only originally had 4x scopes on them, so that is all there permitted to use in the CMP VS competition.
However, if you spend your thousand dollars on a repo 1903A(1,3,or 4, whatever you want to call your reproduction rifle), you can put in 8x repo Uertl on it, because somewhere, way back when, such an original rifle had such an original scope on it, on rare occasions.
At least in some people’s minds, the use of the reproduction 8x effectively eliminates any 4x scope from being competitive at 600 yards, so long as the shooter does not have Parkinson’s.
I am not complaining about it, because the CMP can do whatever it wants, and I not the sort of person that would be there for a trophy anyway; But, I understand that is why some say “unfairness.” So, just because you can use or reproduction scope, does not mean you use, 8x scope, as I understand it.
Maybe somebody can tell me if this is how the VS rules are working now, as a practical matter?
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  #15  
Old 11-23-2015, 09:18 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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The rules are there for everyone to see in the CMP Competition section. You will need to understand that there are a few mistakes and the interpretation of those rules is not always clear.... Good Shooting. ..
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  #16  
Old 11-23-2015, 02:30 PM
Calfed Calfed is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navynambu View Post
I am no expert in this, and I apologize for getting my own post off track, and I might well be mistaken, and if I am I apologize, but my understanding of the rule is that the Swedish M41b (and other guns) only originally had 4x scopes on them, so that is all there permitted to use in the CMP VS competition.
However, if you spend your thousand dollars on a repo 1903A(1,3,or 4, whatever you want to call your reproduction rifle), you can put in 8x repo Uertl on it, because somewhere, way back when, such an original rifle had such an original scope on it, on rare occasions.
At least in some people’s minds, the use of the reproduction 8x effectively eliminates any 4x scope from being competitive at 600 yards, so long as the shooter does not have Parkinson’s.
I am not complaining about it, because the CMP can do whatever it wants, and I not the sort of person that would be there for a trophy anyway; But, I understand that is why some say “unfairness.” So, just because you can use or reproduction scope, does not mean you use, 8x scope, as I understand it.
Maybe somebody can tell me if this is how the VS rules are working now, as a practical matter?
It really is fairly easy to understand. On many (but not all) vintage sniper rifles, you can use modern optics of the same power as the original sniper rifle optics. On most Mauser sniper rifles you can substitute 4X weavers for the original 4x scopes, for the 03A4 you can substitute a 2.5X weaver for the original Weaver 330/Lyman Alaskan, for Lee Enfield No4's you can substitute a K2.5 or K3 for the original No. 32 scope., etc.

Some rifles, like the Swiss 31/42 and the various Japanese sniper rifles can only use original optics.

Does that give the 1903A1 USMC 8x sniper rifles an advantage? Yes, but this is a competition against reasonably historical representations of actual sniper rifles. As my old Dad used to say...that is just the way the cookie crumbles.

Last edited by Calfed; 11-24-2015 at 07:11 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-24-2015, 07:08 PM
S99VG S99VG is offline
 
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It wasn't the power of the optics that was my concern as much as it was the quality, which is always going to be better with a modern scope. So does anyone actually shoot an Arisaka in sniper matches? If so, where in the heck do you find an original scope? ?
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  #18  
Old 11-24-2015, 07:23 PM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calfed View Post

Some rifles, like the Swiss 31/42
Very rare and expensive
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  #19  
Old 11-24-2015, 10:05 PM
Calfed Calfed is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K31Schmidt View Post
Very rare and expensive
They are about as expensive as an actual 03A4.
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  #20  
Old 11-25-2015, 08:50 AM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calfed View Post
They are about as expensive as an actual 03A4.
Yea, that sucks too. But I do have a M41B Swede, the only original sniper rifle in my budget.
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