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  #1  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:28 PM
Rock Rock is offline
 
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Default Marine Carbines

How long did the Marines issue carbines? I assume that they had them up until the adoption of the M14 but I read somewhere that there was some dissatisfaction with them during the Korean war and that they were dropped soon after the war.
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:56 PM
gunny gunny is offline
 
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Penetration of North Korean and Chinese cold weather clothing was hindering "knockdowns" so head shots were called for. Chesty Puller demanded Garands for his Marines armed with Carbines....
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RVN '66 - '68 1st Tank Bn
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:16 PM
weimar_police weimar_police is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny View Post
Penetration of North Korean and Chinese cold weather clothing was hindering "knockdowns" so head shots were called for. Chesty Puller demanded Garands for his Marines armed with Carbines....
This is a common thought/myth, but if you do a google search or youtube search, you will find about a dozen people who have shot frozen clothing, frozen phonebooks, etc showing penetration is on par with many other rounds. The carbine has the velocity of about a 357 magnum, and penetration in round nose is as you'd expect--- no offense, but I think its more likely that the garand shot like a rifle and the carbine simply didn't.

I have never been able to find anyone willing to stand 100 yards from me and let me shoot at them with my carbine


Ed

Last edited by weimar_police; 03-25-2020 at 02:18 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-25-2020, 04:00 PM
crabby13 crabby13 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weimar_police View Post
This is a common thought/myth, but if you do a google search or youtube search, you will find about a dozen people who have shot frozen clothing, frozen phonebooks, etc showing penetration is on par with many other rounds. The carbine has the velocity of about a 357 magnum, and penetration in round nose is as you'd expect--- no offense, but I think its more likely that the garand shot like a rifle and the carbine simply didn't.

I have never been able to find anyone willing to stand 100 yards from me and let me shoot at them with my carbine


Ed
I have seen some videos on you tube that were a little shocking as to what the little carbine penetrated. Layers of frozen clothing wouldnt stand a chance .
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2020, 12:40 AM
bandhunter31 bandhunter31 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weimar_police View Post
This is a common thought/myth, but if you do a google search or youtube search, you will find about a dozen people who have shot frozen clothing, frozen phonebooks, etc showing penetration is on par with many other rounds. The carbine has the velocity of about a 357 magnum, and penetration in round nose is as you'd expect--- no offense, but I think its more likely that the garand shot like a rifle and the carbine simply didn't.

I have never been able to find anyone willing to stand 100 yards from me and let me shoot at them with my carbine


Ed
and its not as if the u.s military had not used the Carbine extensively in other cold weather combat situations....... the Nazi's must have been issuing "last ditch" cold weather gear during the Battle of the Bulge, which was not up to the same quality as the Chi-Com stuff in Korean......i think it was a combination of marksmanship (or lack of) and the weapon/caliber that was being used beyond its intended purpose........
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:12 PM
AWOhio AWOhio is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weimar_police View Post
This is a common thought/myth, but if you do a google search or youtube search, you will find about a dozen people who have shot frozen clothing, frozen phonebooks, etc showing penetration is on par with many other rounds. The carbine has the velocity of about a 357 magnum, and penetration in round nose is as you'd expect--- no offense, but I think its more likely that the garand shot like a rifle and the carbine simply didn't.

I have never been able to find anyone willing to stand 100 yards from me and let me shoot at them with my carbine


Ed
I suspect most of the “non penetration” incidents were clean misses, or penetrations that were not immediate man stoppers.

Another thread linked to this report.
http://thegca.org/wp-content/uploads...52-reduced.pdf

Maybe not in the marine Corp given their marksmanship skills, but there was a lot of unaimed fire in Korea according to the above survey.
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2020, 11:59 AM
milwaukeeshaker milwaukeeshaker is offline
 
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I call B.S., this statement is a total myth. Has been proven to be a myth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny View Post
Penetration of North Korean and Chinese cold weather clothing was hindering "knockdowns" so head shots were called for. Chesty Puller demanded Garands for his Marines armed with Carbines....
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2020, 03:47 PM
mrrm mrrm is offline
 
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There is footage of Marines armed with either M1 or M2 Carbines during the TET offensive battle for HUE City Vietnam. Not saying the carbine was in wide issuance by the USMC at this time but carbines were in use in very small numbers.
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  #9  
Old 03-26-2020, 05:33 AM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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The frozen clothing stopping the .30 Carbine is a myth. I've talked to numerous Marine vets from the Chosin, including one who carried two M2 carbines, and also reading the the Marine docs, they never discuss this. In fact the Marine vets usually laugh when you mention this to them, the same as when you mention the the enemy waiting for the "ping" of a M1 Garand. The carbine was effective but not much past 100 yards, which the terrain of Korea was much more favored to the .30 CAL M1.

They did however start to phase out the Carbine in 1951. They wanted every Marine to be armed with the M1 Garand, just because of logistics mostly. They would need only one set of replacement parts on hand for one rifle platform, only having to train new Marines on one style of rifle, and only one caliber of ammo shipped to the field. It made sense as logistics in a war for multiple weapon platforms is a pain.

Plus the Marines LOVED the M1 Garand. Everyone thinks the Marines loved the M14 rifle. This wasn't the case. The Marines only switched to the M14 because they were FORCED to. The Marines had to switch to a 7.62 CAL rifle by a certain date, so they had no choice to get rid of the Garand. They tried to switch the Garand to the .308 but they could never get it to function right. If it wasn't for the fact they had to align with the new caliber ammo, you would have never seen the M14 in the Marines.

Quite frankly the Marines just loved the M1 rifle.

The Carbine basically was pulled at the end of Korea. I have all the documents on this but it's been a year or two since I've read them so I know I'm rusty.

But they authorized it for guard duty I believe but that was about it. Otherwise they mostly were turned in or sat in storage.

The last I saw of them in counts and mentions was the late 50's if I remember right.

Last edited by cplnorton; 03-26-2020 at 05:42 AM.
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  #10  
Old 03-26-2020, 10:37 PM
Rock Rock is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cplnorton View Post
They did however start to phase out the Carbine in 1951. They wanted every Marine to be armed with the M1 Garand, just because of logistics mostly. They would need only one set of replacement parts on hand for one rifle platform, only having to train new Marines on one style of rifle, and only one caliber of ammo shipped to the field. It made sense as logistics in a war for multiple weapon platforms is a pain.
It's interesting that the Marines were phasing out the carbine in the middle of the war. Can you tell from the documents if it was completely phased out by mid 1953?
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