Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > M1 Carbine
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:28 PM
Rock Rock is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,084
Default Marine Carbines

How long did the Marines issue carbines? I assume that they had them up until the adoption of the M14 but I read somewhere that there was some dissatisfaction with them during the Korean war and that they were dropped soon after the war.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:56 PM
gunny gunny is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: North Bama
Posts: 6,480
Default

Penetration of North Korean and Chinese cold weather clothing was hindering "knockdowns" so head shots were called for. Chesty Puller demanded Garands for his Marines armed with Carbines....
__________________
Semper Fi,
Gunny
RVN '66 - '68 1st Tank Bn
USMC Ret. 1986, US Army Civilian Retired 2011
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:16 PM
weimar_police weimar_police is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny View Post
Penetration of North Korean and Chinese cold weather clothing was hindering "knockdowns" so head shots were called for. Chesty Puller demanded Garands for his Marines armed with Carbines....
This is a common thought/myth, but if you do a google search or youtube search, you will find about a dozen people who have shot frozen clothing, frozen phonebooks, etc showing penetration is on par with many other rounds. The carbine has the velocity of about a 357 magnum, and penetration in round nose is as you'd expect--- no offense, but I think its more likely that the garand shot like a rifle and the carbine simply didn't.

I have never been able to find anyone willing to stand 100 yards from me and let me shoot at them with my carbine


Ed

Last edited by weimar_police; 03-25-2020 at 02:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-25-2020, 03:47 PM
mrrm mrrm is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CT.
Posts: 1,994
Default

There is footage of Marines armed with either M1 or M2 Carbines during the TET offensive battle for HUE City Vietnam. Not saying the carbine was in wide issuance by the USMC at this time but carbines were in use in very small numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-25-2020, 04:00 PM
crabby13 crabby13 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 153
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weimar_police View Post
This is a common thought/myth, but if you do a google search or youtube search, you will find about a dozen people who have shot frozen clothing, frozen phonebooks, etc showing penetration is on par with many other rounds. The carbine has the velocity of about a 357 magnum, and penetration in round nose is as you'd expect--- no offense, but I think its more likely that the garand shot like a rifle and the carbine simply didn't.

I have never been able to find anyone willing to stand 100 yards from me and let me shoot at them with my carbine


Ed
I have seen some videos on you tube that were a little shocking as to what the little carbine penetrated. Layers of frozen clothing wouldnt stand a chance .
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-26-2020, 12:40 AM
bandhunter31 bandhunter31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weimar_police View Post
This is a common thought/myth, but if you do a google search or youtube search, you will find about a dozen people who have shot frozen clothing, frozen phonebooks, etc showing penetration is on par with many other rounds. The carbine has the velocity of about a 357 magnum, and penetration in round nose is as you'd expect--- no offense, but I think its more likely that the garand shot like a rifle and the carbine simply didn't.

I have never been able to find anyone willing to stand 100 yards from me and let me shoot at them with my carbine


Ed
and its not as if the u.s military had not used the Carbine extensively in other cold weather combat situations....... the Nazi's must have been issuing "last ditch" cold weather gear during the Battle of the Bulge, which was not up to the same quality as the Chi-Com stuff in Korean......i think it was a combination of marksmanship (or lack of) and the weapon/caliber that was being used beyond its intended purpose........
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-26-2020, 05:33 AM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Van Wert, Ohio
Posts: 2,072
Default

The frozen clothing stopping the .30 Carbine is a myth. I've talked to numerous Marine vets from the Chosin, including one who carried two M2 carbines, and also reading the the Marine docs, they never discuss this. In fact the Marine vets usually laugh when you mention this to them, the same as when you mention the the enemy waiting for the "ping" of a M1 Garand. The carbine was effective but not much past 100 yards, which the terrain of Korea was much more favored to the .30 CAL M1.

They did however start to phase out the Carbine in 1951. They wanted every Marine to be armed with the M1 Garand, just because of logistics mostly. They would need only one set of replacement parts on hand for one rifle platform, only having to train new Marines on one style of rifle, and only one caliber of ammo shipped to the field. It made sense as logistics in a war for multiple weapon platforms is a pain.

Plus the Marines LOVED the M1 Garand. Everyone thinks the Marines loved the M14 rifle. This wasn't the case. The Marines only switched to the M14 because they were FORCED to. The Marines had to switch to a 7.62 CAL rifle by a certain date, so they had no choice to get rid of the Garand. They tried to switch the Garand to the .308 but they could never get it to function right. If it wasn't for the fact they had to align with the new caliber ammo, you would have never seen the M14 in the Marines.

Quite frankly the Marines just loved the M1 rifle.

The Carbine basically was pulled at the end of Korea. I have all the documents on this but it's been a year or two since I've read them so I know I'm rusty.

But they authorized it for guard duty I believe but that was about it. Otherwise they mostly were turned in or sat in storage.

The last I saw of them in counts and mentions was the late 50's if I remember right.

Last edited by cplnorton; 03-26-2020 at 05:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-26-2020, 07:26 AM
GM1MAN GM1MAN is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 664
Default

If I remember correctly what I have read, the M1 Carbine was originally developed as a replacement for the 1911 .45 ACP pistol, especially for the those who had crew served weapons, vehicle drivers, rear echelon troops and others. Many troops liked it because of it’s light weight.

I do not know many folks that can shoot the 1911 at 100 yards with any accuracy when compared to the M1 Carbine, I know I can’t.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-26-2020, 08:17 AM
vagrant vagrant is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 745
Default

No, definitely not as a replacement for the 1911. Crew served weapons, yes. Machinegun service-supply, ammo carriers, mortar crew supply, all yes. The 1911 was never to be replaced with the Carbine. The Carbine was not designed for rear echelon.
The origin was for main line battle weapon supporting roles where performing that task was too cumbersome with the Garand or too vulnerable with the pistol.
__________________
People, use adverbs please. CORRECT: Do it quickly. INCORRECT: Do it quick. You don't say, "Go there immediate", do you?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-26-2020, 08:37 AM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Van Wert, Ohio
Posts: 2,072
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagrant View Post
No, definitely not as a replacement for the 1911. Crew served weapons, yes. Machinegun service-supply, ammo carriers, mortar crew supply, all yes. The 1911 was never to be replaced with the Carbine. The Carbine was not designed for rear echelon.
The origin was for main line battle weapon supporting roles where performing that task was too cumbersome with the Garand or too vulnerable with the pistol.
Actually for the Marines he is correct. The Carbine was meant to replace the M1911. I have the documents on it from the Headquarters Marine Corps.

The Marines actually wanted to get rid of the .45 caliber ammo going to the Pacific and viewed the Carbine as a more effective weapon than the pistol.

The early field reports stated the .45 pistol was all but useless in the jungle, so the Carbine was seen as the better solution since because of it's small size and stopping power, it was seen as superior.

So the M1 Carbine was meant to replace the M1911, the Thompson SMG, and the Reising SMG and was going to be issued for any Marine or Corpsman that his main job wasn't as a rifleman.

There is a period of time in the middle of the war, Headquarters Marine Corps pushed this sentiment hard. Pistols became very rare in the Pacific.

By the end of the war though, they decided pistols do have merit. So they reversed their decision and kept the M1911A1 in service.

Last edited by cplnorton; 03-26-2020 at 08:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:12 AM.