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  #11  
Old 10-17-2019, 09:33 PM
SA1942 SA1942 is offline
 
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Yes that is the powder. Clays has a yellow label. Not what you want.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2019, 09:36 PM
SA1942 SA1942 is offline
 
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Not what you want. Tan and green label not yellow

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/hodgdon-clays/
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  #13  
Old 10-18-2019, 08:57 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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Ain't nothing wrong with Unique, Red Dot, WW 231 (aka HP 38) powders. They have decades of success with 45 acp. If one can't get results with these 3, there is some fundamental problems going on.
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2019, 01:26 PM
Unclenick Unclenick is offline
 
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He's not having trouble with results; just wanting something that produces a little less fouling.

Hodgdon has three powders in the Clays line in descending order of burn rate:

Clays
International Clays (now labeled just "International", I think.
Universal Clays (the one I am suggesting).

For some reason, no pistol loads for International have been posted by Hodgdon. Perhaps they don't like its ignition uniformity when in a low loading density cartridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpm32
The issue is double base versus single base powders—it has nothing to do with graphite, which all powders are coated with.
There are a number of graphite-free powders now. Varget was the first one I noticed on the market (yellowish grains) and the Clays line is another (tan flakes). Trail Boss is another.

The fouling issue is both about the base and the graphite. My 1911 picks up what I think of as carbon clay hard-packed into locking lugs and other recesses and it is the slightly oily carbon from the nitroglycerin contribution shooting Bullseye. If you leave the slide or frame soaking in Ed's Red for a month, it gradually flows to the bottom of the container. But the gas streaks that emerge from the grip panels are streaks that look silvery in reflected light just like lead pencil marks do, so they are clearly a graphite contribution. Ed's Red doesn't flow them anywhere.
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Last edited by Unclenick; 10-18-2019 at 01:29 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2019, 03:42 PM
sparx sparx is offline
 
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Correct , I am not having a problem with 231, just wanted something cleaner.


This Universal is too confusing to change over to, for me not worth the trouble.
sparx
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2019, 04:17 PM
schutzen-jager schutzen-jager is offline
 
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been using red dot for over 50 years now - tried others but see no reason to change -
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2019, 08:44 PM
SA1942 SA1942 is offline
 
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Sparx. Back to your original question, AA2 would serve you well. Just give it a try and I don’t think you would be disappointed.
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2019, 02:14 PM
Unclenick Unclenick is offline
 
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If you are looking at a powder made by Hodgdon and the word "Universal" is part of the name, it's the same stuff.

Any confusion, such as TheFlyingDutchman had, is caused by the evolution of the name labeling. Currently, a 1-lb jar says "Universal" in big letters, followed by "Clays Technology" underneath. I just bought a 4 lb jug last year that says "Universal" and nothing else for the name, but they are the same powder.

Universal is a small brownish or dark tan (depending on the ambient light) disc, having a relative burn rate between those of Bullseye and Unique. The other two powders in the "Clays Technology" lines are Clays and International, which have larger, blacker (probably from graphite) discs, and the difference just seems to be that the Clays discs are much thinner to burn faster. In any event, the tiny Universal discs are the most consistent metering of the three from a powder measure.
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Last edited by Unclenick; 10-19-2019 at 02:46 PM.
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  #19  
Old 10-19-2019, 03:00 PM
bpm32 bpm32 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
He's not having trouble with results; just wanting something that produces a little less fouling.

Hodgdon has three powders in the Clays line in descending order of burn rate:

Clays
International Clays (now labeled just "International", I think.
Universal Clays (the one I am suggesting).

For some reason, no pistol loads for International have been posted by Hodgdon. Perhaps they don't like its ignition uniformity when in a low loading density cartridge.



There are a number of graphite-free powders now. Varget was the first one I noticed on the market (yellowish grains) and the Clays line is another (tan flakes). Trail Boss is another.

The fouling issue is both about the base and the graphite. My 1911 picks up what I think of as carbon clay hard-packed into locking lugs and other recesses and it is the slightly oily carbon from the nitroglycerin contribution shooting Bullseye. If you leave the slide or frame soaking in Ed's Red for a month, it gradually flows to the bottom of the container. But the gas streaks that emerge from the grip panels are streaks that look silvery in reflected light just like lead pencil marks do, so they are clearly a graphite contribution. Ed's Red doesn't flow them anywhere.
Iím not familiar with the coating on Varget, so my apologies if Iím giving out bad info there. In general youíd lightly coat powders with graphite in a sweetie barrel or equivalent to prevent ESD sensitivity, sticking, and hygroscopicity. I know some manufacturers have tried other coatings that prevent water absorption better than straight carbon, so maybe thatís whatís on those other powders? But these would be organic as well, so would generate more carbon upon combustion. In any event, the coatings are a tiny percentage of whatís in smokeless powder.

Nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin are organic molecules. Because the oxygen balance is not precise they will always create carbon as a by-product to some extent. Thatíll be true of all organic energetic materials, including an actual explosive like C4, which makes a terrible sticky black goo when detonated.

With Alliant Bullseye, itís pretty much the same powder as it was in 1910, so itís super old school and filthy as hell. Still works great though. Itís made in 1940s buildings at Radford Arsenal the same way itís always been made. Because itís a double base, production has to stay close to nitroglycerin production, which is manufactured onsite by BAE.

Sorry if I pulled the thread into the weeds here, but I love talking about this stuff!
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  #20  
Old 10-20-2019, 09:21 AM
jmm jmm is online now
 
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One thing to remember is that all powders burn cleaner at higher pressures.
With .45ACP you are limited in the pressure you can go to, but with other calibers "hotter" can be better.
I have been loading Titegroup in my .45ACP rounds, but I find it performs more consistent at loads that are warmer than I like to shoot regularly. I won't buy more.
With 231 you can go a little higher than the current load, or try a different powder.
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