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  #11  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:33 AM
JimF JimF is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
. . . . .Last shot: Dump your charge from a powder measure....and not weigh charges precisely, how in bloody hell can you blame a powder for flyers and accuracy variances at 600 to 1000 yds ? The operator, not temperature is root cause for inaccuracy. It cost the same to build a half assed hand load as a high performing hand load, so decide what kind of hand loader you want to be and enjoy fruits of that.
Well said . . . . .

As I’ve said here before, . . . .

There are “reloaders” . . . .

Then there are “handloaders”!

In the automobile field, there are “parts replacers” . . . .

Then there are TRUE “auto mechanics”!
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2019, 08:22 PM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Yes, fair enough.
I simply summarized all that for him by saying he doesn't shoot in "conditions to see it....." meaning, for example, the LR aspect.

$%^&*…… pick a powder and be done with this, man!
There's a reason if you talk to good shooters and realize there are a few (like 1-3) powders that end up being a good combo with the caliber and rifle.
Figure it out and shoot! Not spend your time experimenting...……and reinventing the wheel.

Yes, all powders show some temp variation but why not pick the one with the lowest that gives you good accuracy? Just eliminate the variable as best you can and be done with it?


You kinda answered your own comment about reloading manuals. They aren't LR manuals, they are manuals listing the safe loads they found with a variety of powders. Just because a powder is listed, doesn't mean it's the "best." Some rifles, with their design, shoot better with some powders (think port pressures for example), so it's not just achieving a certain velocity. You also mentioned case volume/powder fill...….if you look at the reloading manuals, you can screen a lot of the powders out using that criteria, so really the list gets a lot shorter. You'll also notice only some manuals list what they found to be the most accurate. If you had a LR manual from the top shooters, the list would probably be a short one.
As I tried to explain, when Varget vanished , I used what I could find and got along just fine at 800 /1000 yds. I totally agree: shoot and don't spend ones life experimenting and testing. That said there are some awful powders according to "everyone" that are very temp sensitive according to "everyone" and W760 is one of them....and I got loads that are awesome at 1000 yds using it. Get your dope down, jot changes when temp changes and you can do quite well with such powders. Are they my first choice...no but I can make them work and temp variance is not some huge drama.
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:30 PM
jimthompson502002 jimthompson502002 is offline
 
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The powder is called "StaBall 6.5", and it's designed to measure easily, be panthermically minimal (very little response to temperature variations), and have an ideal burn rate for the so-called "short magnums". This suggests it might also be handy for some of the mid-range military cartridges.

In particular, the 6.5 Remington Short Mag is right in the moniker.

I'll be testing it as soon my samples arrive.

Like 748, it can be a very nice accuracy booster with sensible procedures, or so it seems. The temperature curve of course is an entirely separate matter.

I did find the anti-copper-foul powders to save work and perform more than adequately.

Last edited by jimthompson502002; 11-07-2019 at 03:02 AM.
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:11 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimthompson502002 View Post
The powder is called "StaBall 6.5", and it's designed to measure easily, be panthermically minimal (very little response to temperature variations), and have an idea burn rate for the so-called "short magnums". This suggests it might also be handy for some of the mid-range military cartridges.

In particular, the 6.5 Remington Short Mag is right in the moniker.

I'll be testing it as soon my samples arrive.

Like 748, it can be a very nice accuracy booster with sensible procedures, or so it seems.

I did find the anti-copper-foul powders to save work and perform more than adequately.
Look time will tell, so lets not throw out all sorts of thoughts here.
But if it's anything like 748, then NO, it's NOT good for temperature insensitivity...…………..748 is one of the worst.
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:02 AM
milprileb milprileb is offline
 
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I was given 3 pounds of Win 748 and used it for 55 gr loads in my M4 carbine with no issues at 300 yds for accuracy but I'd not stand in line to buy it , there are better powders out there for 556 /223. Perfectly fine for plinking at skeet birds at 300 yds with 55 gr bullets and I just metered it. Short range use and free during the Hope&Change powder drought....I've enjoyed this powder but my expectations were nothing huge. Also saved me from using Varget or H4895 for such casual shooting and those two powders were near extinct in my area during this drought.

Great thread with good info: I thank all

Last edited by milprileb; 11-05-2019 at 12:46 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-06-2019, 01:32 PM
jimthompson502002 jimthompson502002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Look time will tell, so lets not throw out all sorts of thoughts here.
But if it's anything like 748, then NO, it's NOT good for temperature insensitivity...…………..748 is one of the worst.
No one compared its temperature sensitivity to 748.

However, because it meters so nicely, lots of competitors are using 748 and BLC(2)--operationally the same powder!--in carefully worked up loads for precise work. Useful in .30 and others, it is especially appropriate for 7.62x51mm./.308, and this is borne out by Sierra and others, in detail and documented.

It's in the literature. The controls are well defined.

The intent of the powder is made obvious by its title. Analogies are nice, but not always pertinent. The "ball powder" aspect IS.

Last edited by jimthompson502002; 11-07-2019 at 03:04 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2019, 05:54 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimthompson502002 View Post
No one compared its temperature sensitivity to 748.

However, because it meters so nicely, lots of competitors are using 748 and BLC(2)--operationally the same powder!--in carefully worked up loads for precise work. Useful in .30 and others, it is especially appropriate for 7.62x51mm./.308, and this is borne out by Sierra and others, in detail and documented.

It's in the literature. The controls are well defined.
Oh, sorry I was having difficulty understanding your post.
But I also thought we are talking about the 6-6.5 type calibers and not the 308 from the 80's.
No worries, my bad.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:55 AM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
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Temperature sensitivity is typically an issue with max loads where the powder is on the fast end of the spectrum for the particular cartridge/bullet combination. I generally do not run max loads, and my powders are appropriately matched. I shoot on a very windy range, and I haven't seen the few FPS gained with max loads to make that much of a difference.
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:40 AM
Unclenick Unclenick is offline
 
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Temperature insensitivity is good for cold barrel first shots. Once the barrel warms up, its temperature seems to dominate pressure and velocity changes. This old article by Denton Bramwell shows it.

Western Powder's FAQ says spherical propellants cannot be made temperature insensitive, as the process has to do with fiddling with deterrents in stick powders, which can be done because their progressivity is controlled by their perforation geometry, giving them a second progressivity control to balance against deterrent changes while spherical propellants are stuck with an exponentially diminishing deterrent penetration gradient to make them burn progressively. But apparently, the folks at the St. Marks plant in Florida figured out a way around it. I don't know what they did.

The powder seems to be designed for the 6.5 CM weapons slated to be issued to some SOCOM units this year. The report is that in sniper rifles 1000 m hit probability was doubled over what the M24 system in 7.62 achieves. They also have a machine gun and an assault weapon chambered for it. You can Google the military publication articles on it.
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Last edited by Unclenick; 11-10-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2019, 06:46 AM
Kilo-Sierra Kilo-Sierra is offline
 
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My reloading room is full of the "Latest and Greatest" wonder powders that are game changers (yea, OK...). They are pretty much collecting dust now. ONLY....to go back to the proven powders that had been shooting x's to start already. I FINALLY learned my lesson and realized that if I'm not shooting x's with H4350, H4895, Varget, or 4064 then it is probably me not the hardware.

Don't EVEN get me started on gun cleaning solvents/lubes.....

Keith
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