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  #21  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:21 AM
WindLogik WindLogik is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
I have made it abundantly clear, even to the most casual observer, that other powders can bring in long range accuracy.
No one is disagreeing with you.

I have a MK 316 clone load that I shoot. Loaded with 4064, although I don't load it to the thousandth of a grain. Shoots beautifully. I usually have over 200 rounds of that loaded and shoot it in many different rifles. 4064 WAS a very popular powder for 308 Palma loads (decades ago), but it no longer is because it is hard to meter and also it is hard to pack the case to get the velocity needed (Lincoln logs). Similarly, many service rifle shooters load their short-line ammo on a progressive, and 4064 doesn't meter well (bridges in the measure and the little 556 case, very hard to get the whole charge into the case). These are practical reasons why other powders, Varget being one of them, have become popular.
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  #22  
Old 05-25-2019, 07:22 PM
Buckshotshoey Buckshotshoey is offline
 
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I will reiterate and say I'm not faulting anyone for using any particular powder. Hey, whatever trips your trigger.

I've done some research the last day or two. One post that came up with my online search was by ceresco in 2013 on this site. Here's a clip from your post....
"I had a conversation with the company rep and did some testing. Bottom line is VarGet is not good in reduced loads (according to the rep). I was using 50grs with 110gr bullets--no crimp. Rep said "no good--use at least 55grs"
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=125421

Now I'm not picking on you in any way. Just picking the subject. It's how I learn things.

Something isn't adding up in my head. In that post you state the rep said (paraphrasing) 50 gr was not enough, 55 was more efficient. I looked in the 5th edition Sierra manual. The starting charge for their 110's is 50.6 gr..... Max is 55.4. And of the 16 powders listed, the "accuracy" load was 53.8gr Varget. (On the other hand, Hodgdon shows a STARTING load at 55gr with a 110gr Hornady.)

Ok... that was in standard conditions, with Sierra's bullets, out of a Savage 116. I have never heard mention of Varget being hard to ignite when starting at minimum load listed, by any professional reloading source. Would like to see a picture of the plasticized Varget. I've never seen it before.

Again not picking on anyone, just trying to make sense of it all. I guess it could be said to not use lite charges of Varget with light bullets. Develop loads with magnum primers when shooting in extreme cold. And don't use a slow burn powder when a slightly faster one would be a better choice. Hunting loads shouldn't be a problem since we are loading heavier bullets for energy and knock down power anyway.

Last edited by Buckshotshoey; 05-25-2019 at 08:56 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:08 PM
ceresco ceresco is online now
 
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Well....all I can say is the rep was at Hodgdon and Sierra doesn't make powder. I don't save cases with melted powder charges....you will just have to trust me on this one. You may have noticed in one of my older posts that, after some experimenting, I found lubing the interior case necks was the most effective way to produce hang fires and misfires. Magnum primers alone are not enough to cure these problems. Good Shooting. ....
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:13 PM
Buckshotshoey Buckshotshoey is offline
 
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If you want reduced charge rounds, maybe this is the direction to go in.......

HODGDON® H4895® REDUCED RIFLE LOADS
For Youth Hunting, Informal Target, and Plinking
__________________________________________________ ________________________
Hodgdon Powder Company has found that H4895 can be loaded to reduced levels. H4895
was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced
charges. To create reduced loads, the 60% formula is recommended.

Find the H4895 load in the Reloading Data Center for your caliber and bullet.

Take the maximum H4895 charge listed and multiply by 60% (.6). The load may
be adjusted up from there to achieve the desired velocity and accuracy.

This works only where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use in a cartridge where H4895
is not shown.

Example: 30-06 cartridge with 125 gr. Sierra SP bullet. Max load shown in the Reloading
Data Center with H4895 is 53.7 grains. 53.7 X .6 = 32.2 grains. The shooter begins
with this load, and may work up from there to obtain the desired velocity and
accuracy for his reduced load.
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  #25  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:34 AM
Buckshotshoey Buckshotshoey is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceresco View Post
Well....all I can say is the rep was at Hodgdon and Sierra doesn't make powder. I don't save cases with melted powder charges....you will just have to trust me on this one. You may have noticed in one of my older posts that, after some experimenting, I found lubing the interior case necks was the most effective way to produce hang fires and misfires. Magnum primers alone are not enough to cure these problems. Good Shooting. ....
Yes. I did come across that. That does make sense because when you use a bullet with a cannelure and roll crimp, it provides retention to allow pressure to build before the bullet starts to move. Lubing case necks would be counterintuitive.
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  #26  
Old 05-26-2019, 06:26 PM
Pappy Pappy is offline
 
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I've gotten hang fires with Varget in larger cases/calibers in the lower end of the load chart. I corrected the problem, I just don't use it. It sounds like I should try some of that H4895
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  #27  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:55 AM
Pinecone Pinecone is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
Now..I don't know why Varget was not selected and I know I have a great Varget load for 175's that holds at 1000 as well.
Maybe because it is made in Australia.

And the USG tends to want to stay with military items made in the US for better control.
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  #28  
Old 07-03-2019, 06:10 AM
mac1911 mac1911 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
Jezzz...how many time does a guy have to day:

I have made it abundantly clear, even to the most casual observer, that other powders can bring in long range accuracy.

That is the truth but it sure looks like the truth is unwelcomed in a very very opinionated group here.

I'll just toss this out to you Varget Groupies: Mk 316 Mod "O" load developed by Crane for 762 semi auto sniper rifles is : 175 SMK pushed by 41.745 gr of IMR 4064 powder and its bloody accurate at 1000 yds. Not Varget but old fashioned old school IMR 4064. Now..I don't know why Varget was not selected and I know I have a great Varget load for 175's that holds at 1000 as well.

I'll close out by merely saying I've stated facts. I don't have a opinion on "Best" as I have loads in many powders that hold at 1000 yds. I do have a opinion on CFE 223 though...it stinks for anything but 556 to 600 yds.
Im curious is that canister grade IMR 4064 or bulk?
Also now that IMR4064 is made in Switzerland is it going to be as good.
Im not a huge fan of the government making the best stuff because far to often they make stuff just good enough with what they have and what the end use is.
In the end your correct, people should use what they feel works for them. Im not partial to anyone powder.
After all im chasing a 3min 10 ring . So for me its whats on sale in the quantity I can afford.
So H4895 veritile and can be reduced for cast loads,Varget- I do like varget for its large range of coverage for a large range of bullet weights. In my limited testing I found Varget does not do well below mid range load data.
8208 - bought this when powder was a bit scarce. Its ok , i have regulated it to my 200 yard practice ammo. H335 and BLC2 also.
Then there is the surplus 844 powder. i use this with the bulk Hornady 55gn 224 bullets. Fun plinker and good practice round.

Did crane choose 4064 after testing several powders or was it told to use 4064 because those contracted to assemble the end result have boat tons of 4064 in house?

Last edited by mac1911; 07-03-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-03-2019, 06:16 AM
mac1911 mac1911 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckshotshoey View Post
If you want reduced charge rounds, maybe this is the direction to go in.......

HODGDON® H4895® REDUCED RIFLE LOADS
For Youth Hunting, Informal Target, and Plinking
__________________________________________________ ________________________
Hodgdon Powder Company has found that H4895 can be loaded to reduced levels. H4895
was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced
charges. To create reduced loads, the 60% formula is recommended.

Find the H4895 load in the Reloading Data Center for your caliber and bullet.

Take the maximum H4895 charge listed and multiply by 60% (.6). The load may
be adjusted up from there to achieve the desired velocity and accuracy.

This works only where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use in a cartridge where H4895
is not shown.

Example: 30-06 cartridge with 125 gr. Sierra SP bullet. Max load shown in the Reloading
Data Center with H4895 is 53.7 grains. 53.7 X .6 = 32.2 grains. The shooter begins
with this load, and may work up from there to obtain the desired velocity and
accuracy for his reduced load.
H4895 reduced works very well ...i use it for some of my higher velocity cast loads in 308-8mm and all the mil flavors inbetween.
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