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  #1  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:31 PM
Patrickd Patrickd is offline
 
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Default IMR4166 in 30/06 Garand?

I see this powder has a burn rate very close to 4064 so I'm thinking it is probably suitable. Has anyone used it? If so can you share some data? I see no reference published in any loading manuals for it.
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:56 PM
mac1911 mac1911 is online now
 
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im going to guess that 4166 does not perform well if its not listed in the cartridge of your choice?


some limited info on line
https://imrpowder.com/imr-enduron-4166/




imr 4166 seems to get to higher pressures with lower velocities with less powder....

Last edited by mac1911; 09-10-2019 at 10:04 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:41 AM
Patrickd Patrickd is offline
 
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Emailed Sierra and they say they haven't tested it yet as it is relatively new stuff. They referred me to Hodgdon Powder. I called them and they tell me they talked about it last fall and plan on doing testing for the service rifles with it later this or early next year. He says it has been discussed in the past. As for it performing well.. As far as I can tell it is right there speed wise with 4064 and in my 308 shoots as well or maybe even better than 4064. Higher pressures with lower velocities? I can't comprehend that as pressure = velocity. I haven't experienced that anyway.
with 150 gn bullets. If it was your average 3006 bolt rifle and no data was available I'd be tempted to work up something, but this Garand is dear to me and not worth risking it.

I read where people swear by Varget but to me Varget seems pretty far down the burn rate chart and if not actually a bit too slow for the Garand, right on the edge. I tried some mid range loads in mine with it and it just felt different. Felt like the bolt was hammering back harder, but it could have been just me.

Last edited by Patrickd; 09-11-2019 at 06:43 AM.
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  #4  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:15 AM
rcolarco rcolarco is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrickd View Post
Emailed Sierra and they say they haven't tested it yet as it is relatively new stuff. They referred me to Hodgdon Powder. I called them and they tell me they talked about it last fall and plan on doing testing for the service rifles with it later this or early next year. He says it has been discussed in the past. As for it performing well.. As far as I can tell it is right there speed wise with 4064 and in my 308 shoots as well or maybe even better than 4064. Higher pressures with lower velocities? I can't comprehend that as pressure = velocity. I haven't experienced that anyway.
with 150 gn bullets. If it was your average 3006 bolt rifle and no data was available I'd be tempted to work up something, but this Garand is dear to me and not worth risking it.

I read where people swear by Varget but to me Varget seems pretty far down the burn rate chart and if not actually a bit too slow for the Garand, right on the edge. I tried some mid range loads in mine with it and it just felt different. Felt like the bolt was hammering back harder, but it could have been just me.
pressure = velocity

No, it doesn't. Much more complicated than your simplistic statement. Use a fast powder and you will get high peak pressures and low velocity.

Varget is very good for M1 loads. Lots of championships won. Your shoulder is not a precision measurement tool. Stick to published loads and you will not hurt your M1.

Burn rate charts are like headspace gauges. Their primary purpose is to induce anxiety.

I don't see any reason to try new powders. 4064 and Varget give Xs. Hard to imagine what more I need.
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Last edited by rcolarco; 09-11-2019 at 07:18 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:56 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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The only "improvements" I have seen with all the new powders introduced in the last 20yrs have been in metering due to smaller granules. Lots of exaggerated claims, but nothing really significantly better than the standard powers that have been available for years. All the "product development has done is raise cost, clutter the shelves and cause shortages of specific products. IMO.... Good Shooting. ....
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  #6  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:25 AM
Patrickd Patrickd is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcolarco View Post
pressure = velocity

No, it doesn't. Much more complicated than your simplistic statement. Use a fast powder and you will get high peak pressures and low velocity.

Varget is very good for M1 loads. Lots of championships won. Your shoulder is not a precision measurement tool. Stick to published loads and you will not hurt your M1.

Burn rate charts are like headspace gauges. Their primary purpose is to induce anxiety.

I don't see any reason to try new powders. 4064 and Varget give Xs. Hard to imagine what more I need.
Yes, but there are more variables to consider.
Fast powder will spike closer to the chamber than a slower powder which is why they are required for the Garand. Slower powders reach peak pressure in the Garand too near the gas port and put too much gas to fast into the system stressing the op rod.
As for velocity vs burn rates.. You would also need to consider length of the barrel and weight of the bullet. If you use a short 20" barrel in a 308W bolt rifle with a 168 SMK and IMR 4350 you won't get the velocity you would using the faster 4198 as the 20" barrel isn't long enough to allow the slower 4350 to achieve a complete burn, whereas a powder like 4198 would probably be at max press as the bullet is exiting the muzzle creating a higher velocity Now you take that in an F class rifle with the 28 or 30" barrel they use and a fast powder would spike way before the bullet got out of the barrel and actually slow down before exit. In that case with the long tube, the slow powder wins.You simply cannot say that fast powders give lower velocities. Too many other factors come into play. Bullet weight, length of tube, speed of powder, even bore size and case capacity variances all play a major role in determining velocity not just burn speed of a particular powder.
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  #7  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:59 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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OP:
So noone here seems to have used it.
These threads come up about every 6 months and can derail into endless arguments over pressure/burn rate charts/etc.
The thing is that its just so much easier to find a load with 4895/4064/Varget for an M1 and be done. There is so much data and experience with one of those, it's an easy choice. (That's why you get those comments).
And so if you really don't want to experiment with your M1, my suggestion is to use one of those powders.
If you don't want to wait for published load guides, try 4166 out and let us know what happens!
It could be the next Varget!!!!

Good Luck!
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Last edited by Gewehr43; 09-11-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-15-2019, 09:30 PM
mac1911 mac1911 is online now
 
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fast and slow burning powders... was once told to me like this.


Try pushing a car:

1. Run as fast as you can into the car to try and get it to move
2. Slowly push and build the "power" needed.


thats sort of what the different burn rates do.....
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