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  #41  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:21 AM
Gustro79 Gustro79 is offline
 
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I am confused about exactly what would constitute an "modern military" and "unlimited modern military" and how would that affect the 4-gun aggregate?

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Last edited by Gustro79; 02-17-2018 at 01:46 AM.
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  #42  
Old 02-17-2018, 02:01 PM
ilionkid ilionkid is offline
 
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Everybody else is too.

Mike
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  #43  
Old 02-17-2018, 06:54 PM
Gustro79 Gustro79 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilionkid View Post
Everybody else is too.

Mike
It's probably worth a message to them... side note somewhat related: how is the Unlimited Garand category handled in regards to the 3 and 4 gun aggregate?

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  #44  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:41 PM
Craftsman Craftsman is offline
 
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The current rule book (2018) is viewable online, and it's easy to look up answers to questions like this. The aggregate 3 & 4 gun is for as issued categories only.
Unlimited categories at least how it stands now are not included in aggregate match scores

http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads...f?ver=02082018



4.6.5 As-Issued Military Rifle 3-Gun Aggregate
The As-Issued Military Rifle 3-Gun Aggregate may be included in the
programs of the National Matches, CMP Travel Games or CMP Sanctioned
Matches. The aggregate is a total of scores fired in the John C. Garand
Match (Rule 4.2.2), the Springfield Rifle Match (Rule 4.2.3) and the Vintage
Military Rifle Match (Rule 4.2.4 or 4.2.5).

4.6.6 As-Issued Military Rifle 4-Gun Aggregate
The As-Issued Military Rifle 4-Gun Aggregate may be included in the
programs of the National Matches, CMP Travel Games or CMP Sanctioned
Matches. The aggregate is a total of scores fired in the John C. Garand
Match (Rule 4.2.2), the Springfield Rifle Match (Rule 4.2.3), the Vintage
Military Rifle Match (Rule 4.2.4 or 4.2.5) and the Modern Military Rifle Match
(Rule 5.6.2)
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  #45  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:26 PM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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Well; that all seems clear enough. Unfortunately, there are now 1903s showing up in (CP) Vintage bolt results, permission for semiautomatics to shoot in vintage bolt being given, .308 M1s are now in MM and an unpredictability element very much present at the inspection table while MM rules remain painfully unclear. Not sure where this is going. I am going to make sure that the rifles I shoot are clearly legal and hope that CMP will do better in the future. Good Shooting. ....
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  #46  
Old 02-18-2018, 02:42 PM
Craftsman Craftsman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceresco View Post
Well; that all seems clear enough. Unfortunately, there are now 1903s showing up in (CP) Vintage bolt results, permission for semiautomatics to shoot in vintage bolt being given, .308 M1s are now in MM and an unpredictability element very much present at the inspection table while MM rules remain painfully unclear. Not sure where this is going. I am going to make sure that the rifles I shoot are clearly legal and hope that CMP will do better in the future. Good Shooting. ....
Seems odd to let 1903's that have their own match category shoot in vintage category. If that's the case, might as well do away with a specific Springfield category and just run a vintage bolt match, that includes them.
It shouldn't be rocket science, or something you have to scratch your head, and hem and haw to figure out what's going to be allowed, on a given match day.
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  #47  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:56 PM
BuddyBGood BuddyBGood is offline
 
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The specifics of the Springfield and Vintage are already there for anyone who cares to play by the rules.
The problem is those who think their interpretation of the rules is more correct.Including what category is marked on the scorecard.
Is this another responsibility of the scorekeeper or of the shooter.
Another solution is that in an GSVMM match if everyone shot the same rifle on the same day and range.There should be nothing on the line but Garands,Nothing but the 2 Springfield’s during Springfield Match,during Vintage there is no reason for a Springfield to even be there,anything in Unlimited should be Shot as its own Unlimited match.
What also is a problem are reentry category’s.If you can only shoot one type of rifle in Vintage Sniper,or Rimfire Sporter,why should it be allowed for a shooter to shoot multiple times with an M1 or Springfield?
It’s anyones guess what goes in Modern Military.
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  #48  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:13 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyBGood View Post
The specifics of the Springfield and Vintage are already there for anyone who cares to play by the rules.
The problem is those who think their interpretation of the rules is more correct.Including what category is marked on the scorecard.
Is this another responsibility of the scorekeeper or of the shooter.
Another solution is that in an GSVMM match if everyone shot the same rifle on the same day and range.There should be nothing on the line but Garands,Nothing but the 2 Springfield’s during Springfield Match,during Vintage there is no reason for a Springfield to even be there,anything in Unlimited should be Shot as its own Unlimited match.
What also is a problem are reentry category’s.If you can only shoot one type of rifle in Vintage Sniper,or Rimfire Sporter,why should it be allowed for a shooter to shoot multiple times with an M1 or Springfield?
It’s anyones guess what goes in Modern Military.
Buddy, If I were king, there would be only one vintage rifle match. You can shoot any as-issued rifle initially manufactured before a certain date (like 1953). No unlimited categories - just as-issue rifles. You can shoot multiple relays if you wish to also shoot with other rifle types. No Garand Match, no Springfield Match, no Vintage Bolt Action Rifle Match - just one big match with simple rules. Of course, that is way too simple and will never happen.
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  #49  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:24 AM
canes7 canes7 is offline
 
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I like the different divisions. They just have to be defined and followed. If its the CMP's position that "if it gets people on the line then it's OK" then you can't fight it. It'll get watered down until everyone on the line is firing in their own personal match.

To have a 3 or 4 gun agg you'll have to create different divisions though. To simplify this thing down to a manageable set of rules you should start with getting rid of the unlimited classes, they just do not work.
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  #50  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:19 AM
BuddyBGood BuddyBGood is offline
 
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Canes 7,I can agree on ending Unlimited.Its just a loophole for noncompliance.
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