Did HRA use Springfield stocks in production of their M1 Garands

[gwozdz]

Originally Posted by Rick B

They were Serriffed just like the large back porched ones I have seen. Reason I know they were Springfield made stocks was small back porch and one inspection mark on the butt end. Rick B

Does this mean that HRA could have used a "small back porch" Springfield stock with a 1/2" DAS stamp? What about the "P", With a seriffed P or non-seriffed P or no P ?

[MLD]

So if HRA was using SA stocks and their own during the short transition of Ord. wheel only stocks, the odds are that they didn’t use up their supply of SA stocks at the same time they started the DAS. Seems like there could or should be SA stocks out there with 3/8 DAS and non seriffed P. Just a thought.

[mtlucas0311]

I have one of these stocks with a 3/8” DAS, HRA characteristics, and a serified “P”. I almost feel like it’s a curse. Nobody is really sure why it is like it is, there doesn’t seem to be anyone clamoring over it like they might for a SA stock on a HRA or IHC, and it’s a narrow band of rifles that it appears on. Plus, it’s a nice stock so I’m sure my OCD will make me look for a rifle with CMP wood to use it on....

[ihcfan55]

I have seen two original HRA rifles with 3/8" DAS stamps and seriffed P proofs in the 4.73M range.

There might be other ranges, but I can confirm the seriffed P proof was being used in the HRA acceptance process in that range.

[Blurry]

I had a 4.76 with the 3/8”. HRAs are cool. I still need to get a look at the difference in the HRA cannons. The HRA and SA I can look at have stamps that are such I can’t tell a difference.

[soldier57]

I just happened to read this thread this morning so I thought I would add my information. I cannot comment on whether HRA used SA stocks as I do not pretend to be knowledgeable in that area.

Last fall I ordered a Service Grade SA from CMP South and received a 4,315,XXX SA with a July 1953 SA barrel. It had virtually 100% correct SA parts. It also had a very nice stock with only the crossed cannons cartouche on the left side with a serifed "P" on the wrist. It also has an "8" stamped on the bottom of the stock and has the small SA back porch.

Until I read some of the traffic on the Forum, I did not know what I had. One other CMP Forum member told me it was an SA stock produced for HRA. Based on what I am reading here, I tend to believe it was one of those few stocks used on SA rifles after the SA/JLC stocks were discontinued. I would certainly appreciate any feedback.

[Trooper]

I purchased a "CORRECT" HRA M1 from CMP that has a IHC complete trigger housing.

I was going to swap out the trigger housing for an HRA and was told by the experts that it is "Correct" for the date of manufacture.

[Shomway]

Originally Posted by soldier57

I just happened to read this thread this morning so I thought I would add my information. I cannot comment on whether HRA used SA stocks as I do not pretend to be knowledgeable in that area.

Last fall I ordered a Service Grade SA from CMP South and received a 4,315,XXX SA with a July 1953 SA barrel. It had virtually 100% correct SA parts. It also had a very nice stock with only the crossed cannons cartouche on the left side with a serifed "P" on the wrist. It also has an "8" stamped on the bottom of the stock and has the small SA back porch.

Until I read some of the traffic on the Forum, I did not know what I had. One other CMP Forum member told me it was an SA stock produced for HRA. Based on what I am reading here, I tend to believe it was one of those few stocks used on SA rifles after the SA/JLC stocks were discontinued. I would certainly appreciate any feedback.

Pull the butt plate and see if there are any markings in the wood. Was told that SA stocks were the only ones marked under the butt plate.

[MLD]

Originally Posted by soldier57

I just happened to read this thread this morning so I thought I would add my information. I cannot comment on whether HRA used SA stocks as I do not pretend to be knowledgeable in that area.

Last fall I ordered a Service Grade SA from CMP South and received a 4,315,XXX SA with a July 1953 SA barrel. It had virtually 100% correct SA parts. It also had a very nice stock with only the crossed cannons cartouche on the left side with a serifed "P" on the wrist. It also has an "8" stamped on the bottom of the stock and has the small SA back porch.

Until I read some of the traffic on the Forum, I did not know what I had. One other CMP Forum member told me it was an SA stock produced for HRA. Based on what I am reading here, I tend to believe it was one of those few stocks used on SA rifles after the SA/JLC stocks were discontinued. I would certainly appreciate any feedback.

I believe your assumption is 100% correct. Seems you have a very collectible rifle!

[ihcfan55]

Soldier 57 sent me an message about his rifle, and since he has posted the information here, I thought I would add an addendum to my reply to him:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the note. You have an original stock on that rifle. If you recall from my post, Colonel Guion left Springfield Armory at the end of July 1953. (Just for the record, Springfield Armory was on its annual vacation shutdown period in July 1953.) So, on 01 August 1953, Springfield Armory had a new commander, Colonel William J. Crowe, and the SA/JLG acceptance stamp was retired.

There would have been a delay in getting a new Ordnance stamp, and in the interim, the Ordnance wheel only acceptance stamp was put on the rifle. (The Ordnance wheel only was also used at HRA and IHC in their acceptance process in the the first three quarters of 1953.)

As for the timeframe of this usage, I believe the Ordnance wheel only stamp at Springfield Armory was used in the months of August and early September 1953, and my data thus far supports that theory.

So, your rifle is original. Just as a note, I bought a 4.35M rifle last fall that was an original rifle. It had a September 1953 barrel and had the 1/2" DAS on it. So, this data confirms the changeover from Ordnance wheel to DAS took place in September 1953 or later. (Yeah, I know it is one rifle, but it does confirm the very likely transition point.) All other rifles I have examined with September (or later) barrels on them do have the 1/2" DAS acceptance stamp on them. I will continue to research this to see if I can get more confirmation from original rifles.

I also bought a 4.20M last fall that had a 12-52 barrel on it, but it had a faint, almost invisible Ordnance wheel stock on it. I knew, when I first looked at the major parts (bolt, op rod, sights, gas cylinder) that it was an almost original rifle, but it had no SA/JLG stamp. I turned the stock over to the light and rotated it, and I spotted the Ordnance wheel. The whole rifle was very dry, too, and still in desiccant, so I tagged it as an original rifle. It just had "the look".

This 4.20M rifle probably went into the repair crib in December 1952 and came out in August 1953. That is how it caught the Ordnance wheel stock. It is not unusual to see a lot of Springfield Armory 4.2s with barrels that seem later than would be expected because of the production problems that Springfield Armory had in late 1952/early 1953. As Scott Duff once said to me: "The M1 rifle was not an easy rifle to build."

That 4.20M rifle started me researching to see if I could pinpoint exactly when the Ordnance wheel only was used at Springfield. The tip off was the retirement of Colonel Guion at the end of July. So, I posted this information, and I am glad it was of use to you.

So, bottom line. You got a great, and a rather unique rifle. Again, the "Ordnance wheel only" was used for about two months, so original specimens are very rare.

I would love to have a data sheet on this rifle for my records.

Happy collecting! -- GWB