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  #1  
Old 03-01-2011, 06:18 PM
olddeafcoach olddeafcoach is offline
CMP Master Instructor
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: williamsburg, ky
Posts: 56
Default The CMP "Squeeze"

In a way this is another badmouthing of the CMP BUT.......
I run a small club in S.E. Ky. the "Hillside Plinkers". The club started with the DCM just before the CMP's creation. To better understand our situation know that this is one of the highest poverty areas in the nation. Our county has only 35K people & is mostly rural. Most folks can shoot high power by opening their front door. Our focus has always been on safe gun handling for kids but getting parents to bring them to a range & paying a club fee can be a tough sell.

When the CMP first started we were in high clover. We were practically forced to buy all the guns on loan from the Army, carbines - $72, Garands - $94 etc. Not only that but we were encouraged to purchase additional guns at these same prices & could sell them at higher prices to finance the club's activities. We also got free ammo by the pallet & at one point had over 60 active members......nothin' like free ammo ! We helped send several Jr. teams to the National Matches & set a number of kids on the path to high power rifle shooting.

In time all that went away. The CMP apparently decided it could use that money better to finance it's own operations & as the perks to the club went away so did the club members. We were dormant for years but got a fresh start last year & have held monthly Garand matches since October. Officially the club amounts to Me / DBA The Hillside Plinkers LLC. The club finances come out of my wallet. When 16 show up for a match I get reimbursed. When 2 show things run at my expence. I figured that was OK since as the WX improved the attendance would pick up. HIGH HOPES !

Now I find that the CMP has found another way to squeeze the club. One thing that brought some revenue was the sale of ammo. We marked it up to $10 a box & that was a draw for folks to show up at the matches. It also encouraged the sale of CMP Garands. The new club price for 30 yr old Greek ammo is now 49 cents a round & the differential between the club price & the price to the general membership has gone from about 60% to 10%. I can reload a 30-06 round w/ Siera Match Kings for 42 cents......HELLO !?! The CMP sells 30 carbine for $19 a box & I can buy it over the counter for $15, ditto for 22 rimfire.

So now after 52 years of teaching kids safe gun handling I'm scheduled to buy some $3.50 a gallon gas & drive to Anniston & stay in a motel for a couple of days to become a "Master Instructor" for the CMP this week end. I hope there is a CMP VIP reading this who can help me remember just how the CMP is my partner in this whole thing. We're a team, right ? Gosh, I sure hope I can continue to afford this partnership with the organization.

Discouraged,
Old Deaf Coach
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:02 PM
olddeafcoach olddeafcoach is offline
CMP Master Instructor
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: williamsburg, ky
Posts: 56
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Post Script:
I have just found out that Gary Anderson will be taeching at the Master Instructor course this wk. end. I take it all back, screw cheap ammo, I can hardly wait.
Butch
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  #3  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:43 PM
Quicksilver Quicksilver is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NW Georgia
Posts: 1,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olddeafcoach View Post
Post Script:
I have just found out that Gary Anderson will be taeching at the Master Instructor course this wk. end. I take it all back, screw cheap ammo, I can hardly wait.
Butch
Atta-boy Butch....What a tear jerking story.

All good things come to those who wait...

QS
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:12 PM
Mwieczorek Mwieczorek is offline
GSM Master Instructor
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Imlay City, MI
Posts: 669
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If Gary is teaching the class, it will be well worth your time and gas money!

I took the class from him back in 2009. Gary is a stand-up guy and a real credit to the shooting sports.

I coach juniors too, so I know all about the trials and tribulations that junior coaches endure. Really, the way things are going for juniors is air rifle. They're not terribly expensive to buy, they're really cheap to feed, and you can shoot them indoors all winter.

Have fun at the GSM class, you'll be glad you took it.

Matt
__________________
CMP GSM Master Instructor
NRA Level 1 Smallbore/Air Rifle Coach
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:32 PM
FiftyCalAl FiftyCalAl is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NE TN
Posts: 875
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The "club ammo" has never been available as a perk to sell to shooters except to shooters who were participating in the clinic/competition. Many clubs went outside those lines and 'sold' ammo to anyone who wanted it just to finance their activities, which is actually violating the contract we sign as club officials.

Carbine ammo costs so much Sir, because the military does not manufacture and surplus out carbine fodder anymore. Same way with .22LR. They still discount it some to clubs for use in club activities. They also knock off 10% for rifle sales to Club's that remain in the club armory.

With the 'endless supply' of military returns soon to dry up, the monies from the endowment will be all that is available to run and sponsor the future youth events, until Jesus comes back- so they have to be a bit prudent. Surplus ammo has taken a steady price increase in the last decade, but CMP is still inexpensive relatively speaking. You seriously do not think all CMP affiliated clubs are entitled to FREE ammo for events? In 2011?

I mean no disrespect to you Sir, but I have never seen a youth shooting coach, Instructor, or Club/Team exist that did not have the sponsor dip into their own pockets (deeply) for money and time. That is just the way is has been and always will be. I do it, and so does every other volunteer. The CMP's support is stellar and beyond reproach; I personally think your statements are fueled by emotions stemming from the status of our Country today, and not specifically the CMP. Your comparison between 2-4 decades ago and the present giving the CMP a bad rep is not fair.

I was in the first Master Instructor CLass held at Perry with Gary as lead in 2006. It was neat to spend a weekend with him. I hope his zeal and enthusiasm rekindles yours. It is obvious you care deeply in your beliefs of promoting shooting and nurturing youth. Please do not let decades of devotion end up tasting sour just because the leadership in our Country has caused some bad events to set sail. The CMP has been exemplar in 'doing the best at doing the right thing".

Enjoy your class and thank you for your many years of sponsoring the shooting sports.
__________________
"Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms"....
It should be a Convenience store,...not a Government Agency.
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  #6  
Old 03-02-2011, 12:10 AM
hammonje hammonje is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Union, KY
Posts: 4,526
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We used to have similar Garand clinics at River Bend Gun Club. Not the last few years. Oh well, I guess cheap ammo can't last forever. It is a shame that these subsidies can no longer exist to support the shooting sports.

I believe the ammo shortage will dampen enthusiasm a bit. not for me though....as long as there is a CMP match and I'm available. I'll be there. I handload for 90% of my shooting anyway.

I used to give away a can of HXP (240 rds) every year at Rifleman's Weekend and loan out some of my rifles (03a3s and M1s). I simply can't afford the ammo any longer. I used to pay $65/can shipped. The sport has gotten too expensive too fast. Five years ago it was much cheaper. Something altered the market. Perhaps the fact that supply is low. Haven't quite figured it out. The CMP prices jumped up quite a bit. Was it profit motivation or supply and cost. Rifles are still free. I don't buy the endowment story. Orest told me straight to my face they can run the programs off interest alone forever. Not the employees and stores mind you, but the youth programs.

I guess we can feel blessed to have had the opportunity to enjoy the ride. I ain't gettin' off till I kick the can or can't see. I am going to dump my stable to young guns when the times right. Hopefully I can find folks that enjoy the nostalgia and craftsmanship of these rifles as I do.
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  #7  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:36 AM
Quicksilver Quicksilver is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NW Georgia
Posts: 1,268
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Posts 5 & 6 are right on.

I too was ready (cocked and safety off) to send a blast-O-gram in response to the OP...but his 2nd post seemed like a "screw it all" I'm going to get good training attitude.

I am an 'old guy' with pretty good eyes, I carried an M1 for a few weeks way back when...then I was issued an M14. I Thought the ammo was free back then, so was the food and that real comfortable bunk bed too...But I was wrong...what they wanted in return was for me to get shot at! By someone I didn't even know!

Anyway, the CMP is the very best organization we have for junior sports and for enjoying these fine old weapons. Enjoy it while you can this ammo will not be around forever even at these prices it is still a bargain. Just go to Wally-world or anywhere on line and price 30.06 ammo!

Give it a rest there oldeafcoach...and let the kids have some fun. Talk it up in the community, I'll bet even in these times there is someone waiting to step in and provide some assistance.

Just this past weekend I saw a group of 12 youth ready to participate in a .22 shoot. Their sponsor? 4-H!

Oh and by the way...I am from a rural KY county that is much smaller than yours and they have an excellent program for youth.

QS
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  #8  
Old 03-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Craftsman Craftsman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,076
Default

I can't help but add this, as it's all over the news everyday. The days of the "entitlement programs", of all types, all coming to an end, in every corner of U.S society. Maybe in past years/decades, there was enough surplus, again, of "everything", to give out nice perks/services for free, or drastically subsidized. We all are, today, "acutely aware", that the golden goose, whether it's your company funded pension/retirement/health benefits/overtime pay, or cheap ammo, is becoming extinct.
And I can't say it's wrong, that we should, heaven forbid, be "self-suficient"?
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  #9  
Old 03-02-2011, 12:41 PM
kraigwy kraigwy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NE Wyoming
Posts: 1,078
Default

Quote:
I'm scheduled to buy some $3.50 a gallon gas & drive to Anniston & stay in a motel for a couple of days to become a "Master Instructor" for the CMP this week end.
I rode my HD Sporty to Camp Perry for the GSM MI course last Sept. (froze my butt coming home though) because I was too cheap to buy gas.

Gary Anderson was the instructor, I'd have rode that far just to shake his hand. The Course was well worth it.

I feel you pain about funding club activities. My club doesn't even know CMP charges for affiliation.

I haven't charged yet for the clinics but I'm gonna try to recoup a little bit of the cost on my next one, I'm gonna try and furnish the ammo.

I don't blame CMP at all, they are doing a damn fine job with the limited funds they have.
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  #10  
Old 03-02-2011, 03:35 PM
olddeafcoach olddeafcoach is offline
CMP Master Instructor
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: williamsburg, ky
Posts: 56
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Not much sympathy from this bunch but that's what I get for being a whinner !

The idea that someone always has to go in the hole to operate a shooting club may have a lot of truth in it but that doesn't make it a good plan. It's a BAD plan because eventually that person will burn out or go broke & the club folds. This is about the 3rd incarnation of the Hillside Plinkers. Over the last 2 yrs a local gunshop has put up a couple thousand dollars in cash & merchandise & the FOP has picked up the $500 insurance policy. We furnish the guns & ammo to kids for a $20 family membership. I've found a small fee is much better than free as it seperates wheat from chaff. We now charge $20 for adults to join the CMP club, 3 paid members so far. Anyone can shoot a match for $20. Since matches are held Sunday mornings I've planned to keep the range open all day for casual shooting.

Ammo is now the problem. I MUST furnish ammo to new shooters. This morning I've surveyed my regulars & the word is they would rather buy ammo direct from the CMP in clips & bandoleers than from the club even if I sold it for actual costs. Not only have I lost the chance to sell cheap ammo at a small markup to members but I no longer have an offering that most members will want considering their options. This situation is a direct result of CMP policy & pricing.

What more can I say? This particular club can only go forward by being on a sound financial footing. Telling me to suck it up may sound good but bottom line is I can't afford to invest my money.....er excuse me, the CLUB'S money to furnish ammo for other people on speculation. As the WX warms I expect participation to pick up & entry fees may take up the slack. I still say the CMP hurt us w/ their new plan for ammo support.

I'm open to constructive suggestions,
Butch Housman
Hillside Plinkers club # 22034
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