Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP General > Ask Each Other > Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-08-2019, 10:20 PM
GuckyMuckster GuckyMuckster is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PNW
Posts: 21
Default Israeli 8mm

I just acquired some Israeli 8mm ammo from the mid 50s I was wondering if anyone could tell me if these are corrosive or not? Also, any experience reloading it? I heard the primer pockets are not deep enough for a standard primer. Any voices of experiences on this stuff?

Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-09-2019, 06:03 AM
bigwagon bigwagon is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 185
Default

I would treat any surplus ammo from that era as corrosive. It's probably Berdan primed too.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-09-2019, 03:58 PM
Unclenick Unclenick is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,020
Default

With ammo from that era, inspect the brass carefully for verdigris at spots, as it is a sign of powder breaking down. Personally, having had surplus ammo that was younger than that (1982) which had powder going bad by 1993 (no idea of its storage history) and some much older than that which was not going bad, I consider the state of ammunition that old to be uncertain. At a minimum, I would pull bullets on a few samples. If the powder looks and smells good and leaves no red dust behind when you slide it back into the powder funnel off a piece of white paper, you are probably fine. If it is at all questionable, I would pull all the bullets and look at all the powder. That gives you the opportunity to check for Berdan priming and to weigh the powder and put an accurate average charge weight back into each case, producing more consistent ammo. If you have doubts about the powder, you can put fresh powder in.

When my Czech ammo was going bad, it was on a case-by-case basis, with about one in 10 being bad and the others not. I should have pulled it all down then and put fresh powder in, but the bullets were copper washed steel of the dubiously accurate 147-grain ball kind, so I didn't really need them, and I got fascinated by watching it break down, starting, oddly, in one corner of the wooden crate it came (perhaps that corner got hot in storage) in and gradually spreading. Eventually, some case were eaten clear through their sides.

Shooting the bad powder (which is how I found out it was bad) resulted in some squibs that barely cleared the muzzle and in bore rust, much like a corrosive primer might. This was due to nitrous and nitric acid radicals from the powder break-down attacking and activating the steel surface, so a gun firing it had to be cleaned as if it were shooting corrosive ammo. I suggest you do the same. Bore Tech Eliminator is a good choice as it is water-based which will remove salt residue, and it has very effective corrosion inhibitors in it.

Powder doesn't always go bad by wimping out, by the way. In some powder, once the stabilizer is consumed acid radicals then break down the deterrent coatings faster than the nitrocellulose breaks down and that results in the powder being a little weaker but having a much faster burn rate. Naval Ordnance found M80 ball ammo kept at 140F for 18 months did that and pressure went from something around 48,000 CUP to over 70,000 CUP, IIRC. There was a Garand blown up by firing 1947 surplus ammo and the pictures are online if you look for them. A few others have been reported.

So, bottom line, possibly deteriorating powder just isn't worth messing around with. Get a good look at least at a large enough sample of it to be statistically confident it is OK, or just pull it all and confirm it all looks and smells good, and go from there.
__________________
--------------
Nick

Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Patron Member
ORPA Life Member

Last edited by Unclenick; 05-09-2019 at 04:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-10-2019, 05:48 PM
GuckyMuckster GuckyMuckster is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PNW
Posts: 21
Default

Thanks TTSDOWN, Do you happen to recall if it was corrosive? Looking to find out so I know if I can run it through my FN. I do know its boxer primed but heard there were some issues with the primer pockets. Did you try to reload it? Any experiences with it?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:22 AM
Peter S Peter S is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 28
Default

It is boxer primed. I have reloaded it, it has held up well and I have not had problems with the primer pockets.
__________________
-Peter
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:31 PM
GuckyMuckster GuckyMuckster is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PNW
Posts: 21
Default

Thanks Peter,
Do you happen to recall if its corrosive?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:03 PM
7,62x51mm 7,62x51mm is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA Illinois
Posts: 1,599
Default Israeli 7,92mm

In my small collection, I have some Israeli 7,92mm head stamped 54 and 55 that was resized and loaded to 7,62mm NATO specs. Done around the late 50's early 60's because there wasn't any surplus 7,62mm NATO. You could buy expensive 308 Win or Rem but surplus had not arrived.

Same story mid to late 60's with Soviet 7,62x39mm, not even commercial ammo, sometimes small amounts of 7,62mm Lapua surplus. Some vender resized 7,62x45mm (She 52) cartridges to the 7,62x39mm even with steel cases. I have some of that too, others used 6,5 Italian cases.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:15 AM
Peter S Peter S is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuckyMuckster View Post
Thanks Peter,
Do you happen to recall if its corrosive?
From what I've read, it is corrosive.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...raeli-8mm-Ammo
__________________
-Peter
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:38 PM
GuckyMuckster GuckyMuckster is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PNW
Posts: 21
Default

WOW! Interesting read. Thanks Peter!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.