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  #1  
Old 01-24-2014, 04:11 PM
.30 Carbine .30 Carbine is offline
 
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Default Faked Expensive Carbines Discussion

This thread is established to recreate in an acceptable form another thread (the thread, "OUCH!! Some Faked Expensive Carbines," that was deleted because it became personalized towards the seller, I am beginning a new thread with the hopes that it will capture the salient and well-articulated points by some of the authoritative members of this forum.

Per the forum rules there cannot be links to auction sites, so people will have to google the serial numbers to find these rifles on the other auction sites.

The purpose is to point out that there are M1 Carbines that are being sold as “Unissued” or “Mint” or “Correct” and are just mixmasters, with arsenal refinishes that make them look “minty”, with some correct parts, incorrect but USGI parts and aftermarket parts. Some may call this unscrupulous, unethical, profiteering or humping and some believe in the old adage, “buyer beware” and too bad if some person doesn’t know better.

This previously deleted thread focused on 3 very high priced M1 Carbine’s on Gunbroker in mid-January 2014. All three of these M1 carbines were found elsewhere on the internet being sold last year on Rock Island Auction’s site, but described differently. With this in mind, hopefully this discussion will help the uninformed buyer of collectable firearms aware that there are people out there who will go to great lengths to deceive them and tainting the hobby of collecting firearms.

So, the forum members who contributed to the deleted thread, please point out what is wrong with the Gunbroker postings and photographs. Numerous detailed photographs are on the GB site. Remember; please don’t post the seller’s name, web address, auction links or personal information.

January 2014 postings on Gunbroker:

4884257 (Described as a mint, Unissued WWII Inland M1 Carbine c. 1944)

2991712 (Described as an excellent condition and correct WWII Inland M1 Carbine)

880256 (Described as Excellent & Correct WWII Inland M1 Carbine c. 1943)

The above 3 firearms were found on another auction site and appear to have been sold in early December 2013:

Serial Number 2991712. Condition: Professionally restored, 98% of the light and dark green parkerized finishes remain with some scattered minor scratches and high edge wear. The stock is very good as sanded with dings and scratches scattered throughout. Mechanically fine.

Description: Manufactured between September 1943 and January 1944. Front sight is stamped with an "N", the barrel is stamped "INLAND MFG. DIV./GENERAL MOTORS/11-43", type 1 barrel band, 2 rivet handguard, straight face slide, flat bolt, type 1 rear sight stamped "S", push button safety, magazine catch stamped "W-I" and a high wood walnut stock stamped "IO" in the sling cutout and with an ordnance cartouche on the right side. With a green web sling.

Serial Number 4884257. Condition: Fine as arsenal refurbished, 97% of the olive green parkerizing remains with some scattered minor scratches and wear. The reoiled stock is also fine with scattered minor dings and scratches. Mechanically fine.

Description: Manufactured between January 1944 and August 1944. Front sight is stamped "IS", barrel is stamped "INLAND MFG. DIV./GENERAL MOTORS/12-43", 1st type barrel band stamped "UI", 2 rivet handguard, straight face slide, flat bolt, 1st type rear sight stamped "S", early magazine catch stamped "W-I", push button safety, unmarked recoil plate and a low wood walnut stock stamped "IO" in the sling cutout and with an ordnance cartouche on the right side. With a green web sling.

Serial Number 880256. Condition: Very fine as arsenal refurbished, then restored. 90% plus of the dark green parkerized finish remains with cycling and high edge wear. The bolt retains 99% blue finish with some edge wear. The stock is fine as reoiled with scattered minor dings and scratches. Mechanically fine.

Description: Manufactured between May 1942 and December 1943. The front sight is stamped with a "Z", the barrel is marked "INLAND MFG. DIV./GENERAL MOTORS/9-43", 2 rivet shallow groove handguard stamped "IO", straight faced slide, flat bolt marked "A.I.", type 1 rear sight stamped "S", unmarked recoil plate, "E.I." stamped magazine catch, push button safety and a high wood walnut stock stamped "IO" in the sling cutout, has a circled "P" proof on the grip cap area and has an ordnance cartouche on the right side. With a green web sling.
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:04 PM
mozzer mozzer is offline
 
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For reproduction parts from those listings
W-I mag catch
Rear flip sights
Dogleg hammer
type 1 Barrel bands

they appear to be from Larsen (L&S supply) or Riverbank

c tip slings, were D tip slings that were modified to have C tips added after D tips were pulled off.

receivers were clearly refinished.

trigger housing with dogleg hammer had markings that showed that at one time, a type 3 hammer was installed.

Bolts that should have dulite finish were parkerized

BQ also had posts as to items for those serial range were very inconsistent with what an original carbine would have
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2014, 06:32 AM
Good Guy 176 Good Guy 176 is offline
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Sounds like we have another basement builder like the rascal who operates down in Alabama and hustles buyers left and right on GunBroker. He hasn't made the CMP front pages lately, but Sammy is still peddling his flip sighted M1 Carbines to unsuspecting, and loyal as hell, clueless buyers.

Ranger63
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2014, 06:57 AM
DaveHH DaveHH is offline
 
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And we still have hundreds of Basement Builders swapping parts and building ersatz originals for their own collections at times using fake parts. People wonder where all of this junk will eventually wind up.
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2014, 08:42 AM
TSimonetti TSimonetti is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH View Post
And we still have hundreds of Basement Builders swapping parts and building ersatz originals for their own collections at times using fake parts. People wonder where all of this junk will eventually wind up.
I would only add that a nice restored carbine using genuine USGI parts and wood is not the same as a fake Rolex watch or counterfeit money. They are far from junk. There is a legitimate market for restored carbines and garands and a lot of sellers are ethical. However, uneducated buyers who are looking for 100% original carbines are treading into dangerous territory but isn't that the same with many things in life?.

Last edited by TSimonetti; 09-29-2014 at 08:45 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2014, 09:12 AM
tenOC tenOC is offline
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Like a nicely built carbine with questionable barrel, owners perpetuate the scam with wishful thinking.
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2014, 03:20 PM
ekv22ekv ekv22ekv is online now
 
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^^^Agreed....some of this stuff is bought by people who know better but buy it anyway convincing themselves that just maybe its legit.
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2014, 06:53 PM
wlewisiii wlewisiii is offline
 
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This is why I like my cheap mixmaster shooter. No worries, just all old USGI
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2014, 07:06 PM
.Steve. .Steve. is offline
 
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Many times I've said my super nice Blue Sky beats this Bubba'd basement stuff.
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2014, 09:15 PM
deldriver deldriver is offline
 
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You mean there are "fake" carbines?
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