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  #11  
Old 09-29-2014, 09:23 PM
DaveHH DaveHH is online now
 
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Default A legitimate market for restored carbines?

I'm not in that market, but as an outside observer, I see carbine collectors almost always going for the excellent condition carbine over any restored example. Our notorious humpers have brought so much corruption to the "correcting" game that I'd say that if a carbine is a known parts gun with everything sparkling new, the buyers look for something else. There is usually a lot of interest in pristine rebuilds or late production from the NRA sales w/paper. I think that many of the guys who turned up their noses at anything without a flip sight and type 1 band have been culled out of the game. There is just too much fakery going on. Treating people like fools only has so much shelf life.
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2014, 10:28 PM
luckydog513 luckydog513 is offline
 
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Default rifle

What do you mean by the word fake?
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2014, 10:34 PM
wlewisiii wlewisiii is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH View Post
I'm not in that market, but as an outside observer, I see carbine collectors almost always going for the excellent condition carbine over any restored example. Our notorious humpers have brought so much corruption to the "correcting" game that I'd say that if a carbine is a known parts gun with everything sparkling new, the buyers look for something else. There is usually a lot of interest in pristine rebuilds or late production from the NRA sales w/paper. I think that many of the guys who turned up their noses at anything without a flip sight and type 1 band have been culled out of the game. There is just too much fakery going on. Treating people like fools only has so much shelf life.
I was being snarky earlier but this is an important thing.

If the rifle is within spec according to the TM, that is all that matters. It IS an M1 Carbine. Period.

Every one of them was a mixmaster on the day they were accepted by the Army. Every one of them that isn't a bring back was rebuilt sooner or later and possibly more than once.

My Inland mixmaster from 1945 is a more honest example of an M1 carbine in many ways than a "pristine" Irwin-Pedersen that sells for 10x as much.

I'm not a very good collector. But I sure appreciate the firearms I have the joy of taking to the range. That's good enough for me.
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2014, 05:50 AM
tenOC tenOC is offline
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Dave it was ironic that you are always the one berating swapping parts and how you had a verified original Winchester. But years after when you actually
posted pics of the barrel stamping no expert could vouch for the legitimacy of it. Why did you for years trumpet it was expert verified when it never had been actually seen in a formal viewing? People want to believe what they want to believe.
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2014, 08:07 AM
paul s paul s is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tn.
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Why not be happy with the carbine as is? I have a M1A1 that came from a sheriffs department in the same condition they got it in from the Army back in 1968, it's a Saganaw! Is it correct? Hell yes!
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2014, 02:06 PM
tenOC tenOC is offline
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I haven't been around but a few years, but I don't think CMP has auctioned any M1A1 stocks unless they put an Inland action in it. I doubt they all had Inlands when received.
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2014, 03:38 PM
DaveHH DaveHH is online now
 
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Default Ten:

I've sent photos of the barrel stamping and other features of that barrel to Marty Black. He opined that it is a very legitimate Winchester barrel with an oddball marking. He is putting it into a CC issue in 2015 and we'll see if anyone else has something similar.

I've had that Winchester since the late sixties and it is untouched by me. Marty is pretty sure (and so am I) that the barrel would not be some humped fake as there were tons of genuine barrels floating around in that time.

I have based my assumption that it was an original example based on help and a similar assertion from one of the top experts on these forums. He had never seen the marking (although I have posted it here before several times) and it was pretty easy to toss under the bus. There is a "Mirror Image" (his words) carbine made in the same period with an Underwood recoil plate in the CC data base which helped lead to the as built assumption.
I know you have a woodie about my part swapping comments over the years, but if you think that someone would hump up a barrel (with genuine W and W/P marks) in the mid 60's when they could buy another genuine example for $20 AND as they changed the barrel would leave a type 2 band and an Underwood Recoil plate on it then I really can't help you.

And also, I've never swapped a part to "correct" anything yet. How ironic is that? I'll tell you what's ironic; I could care less if it isn't an as built example. I didn't know a single thing about carbines until I inquired on the Jouster board and got some help finding marks. I used it as a camping gun for decades. I didn't even know it was a Winchester until I happened to notice the name. It was just a carbine to me.

Last edited by DaveHH; 09-30-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2014, 05:20 PM
Blood_of_Tyrants Blood_of_Tyrants is offline
 
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You could buy a new Fulton Armory M3 (M1 carbine clone) for the handsome price of $1595.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2014, 05:58 PM
DaveHH DaveHH is online now
 
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Default Lucky Dog: "What do you mean by the word fake?"

Guns that are put together from choice parts and sold as complete examples. The language is either vague, or leaves out the truth that the carbine is a put together example. As in: "I'm no expert on carbines" or "Bought this from my wife's granddad". They never say: "I built this carbine from choice selected parts into something that I think is a correct example." Funny how this isn't done too much with Garand rifles.
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2014, 06:42 PM
2AD_Vet 2AD_Vet is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH View Post
Guns that are put together from choice parts and sold as complete examples. The language is either vague, or leaves out the truth that the carbine is a put together example. As in: "I'm no expert on carbines" or "Bought this from my wife's granddad". They never say: "I built this carbine from choice selected parts into something that I think is a correct example." Funny how this isn't done too much with Garand rifles.
I guess I just dont understand collector bias. If you take a usgi part out of a mix master and put In another usgi part of correct mfgr markings, how do you think that would devalue a carbine or make it a fake? It is still all usgi and as most acknowledge, there are very few proven "all original as issued" samples out there, so assuming it isnt sold as "all original ", swapping parts to achieve consistent mfgr should not be an issue with its remaining "Originality" Would someone looking for a carbine not pay a premium for a more correct version than a mutt assumimg all usgi parts?
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