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Old 12-05-2017, 09:50 AM
ACampComLegacy ACampComLegacy is offline
 
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Location: Snow Hill NC
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Default Mods / admin; surplus 1911 threads ok after sales begin?

Why is discussion not allowed, of the Surplus 1911's / A1's?

Will the threads be allowed AFTER the sales commence?

I haven't seen arguments or personal attacks; a few "Not again" posts I guess (I think almost every Q here is redundant any more), no real TOS violation, and a few criticisms of off-site 'comments' at worst.

I venture I'm not the only one who garners a little info - even humor [neckbearding???], from reading here.

If closing them is on whims, so be it. Going to 30, 45, 60 posts makes it seem like it. But if there's a different reason here, would you let on? About what makes them different from Korean / Philippine Garands and Carbines threads? Or what makes them same as 'Political Threads'?

THanks.........
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2017, 10:17 AM
Det. Jason 714 Det. Jason 714 is offline
 
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I have often thought the same. For whatever reason 1911 talk is like the Korean garand threads.
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2017, 10:25 AM
canes7 canes7 is offline
 
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I wonder if the 1911 conversations could be contained to one or two threads if the attitude towards them would be different, just like the Korean Garand threads. But what happens is that many people rush here to the forum after getting any info from outside the forum and start a new thread without checking to see if someone beat them to the punch. Yesterday after the email went out within just a few hours the forum was littered with 1911 threads. It's more than just a wee bit annoying.
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2017, 03:48 PM
Big_Red Big_Red is offline
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Fair enough. I can't speak for the position of the leadership of CMP and don't purport to here...I'm only giving you the perspective from what I've been told and in the best interests of the forum, and ultimately the CMP.

First off, the base nature of this program is extremely political. And EVERY thread we have seen on the 1911s, as well as the Korean Garands/carbines and even the Phillipine Garands for the most part, turns political, and quick.

This is usually the number one reason we lock, or in many cases delete them because we don't need to provide any more fodder to the anti's or gun control entities. Many here don't seem to understand that these groups are well-organized and observe sites like this one...even more so as this legislation moves forward. Often times, we are our own worst enemies, esp with what we post on forums.

Whether it's slamming a particular party, body, person or office; 2A rants; or any other number of issues...it gets political, and often personal.
If you haven't seen the arguments and/or personal attacks, you weren't paying attention. Of course, over time (usually quickly) those posts are removed and in some cases, users removed (as happened in one case yesterday). Again...own worst enemies.
This forum is a reflection of the CMP and is sponsored by such, which is in turn chartered by Congress. Like 'em or not, regardless of party affiliation, they enable the CMP and this forum. We're simply not going to allow people to bite the hand that feeds us.


Next, more often than not these threads generate much more heat than light, and are basically non-additive or substantive in providing information in the vein of what the CMP Forum is...and a gossip mill is not within that purview. You want water cooler talk, go visit any one of millions of other forums out there.

And on a related note, many times, folks are flat out providing false information. And providing it over and over again.
To piggyback off of what Dan said above, we got together and allowed one thread to stay open in the Ask CMP section...stickied at the top. It took daily effort to keep it clean of the aforementioned political and personal posts and try to keep it focused on solid, objective data points.

Even with that, it still devolved into 65 pages of off-topic and/or repetitive info, ad nauseum... to the point that the same questions were being asked every couple of days with little to no effort by people to find the answers themselves.
Same with the NDAA itself. I HIGHLY suggest people read through section 1091 in its entirety and see for yourself the regulatory and legislative burden being put on the DoD, Army and the CMP to make this happen.
I'll even post the link for it...
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...bill/2810/text

Scroll about halfway down to find section 1091. Just the imposition of CMP to have an FFL only for the pistol transfers/sales is going to create additional resource and oversight burdens for them, not to mention having two separate business processes for firearms (One for 1911s...another for the rifles).
Then add in the many evaluations and reports to Congress as required by this bill, and it's obvious there are much larger and pressing concerns about this program. The fact that one of the annual reports to Congress includes information about the involvement of these pistols in any crimes should be painfully self-evident. And why the Dod and Army are very reluctant to pursue this...the risk capital here is huge. Just imagine the heat and scrutiny if one of these pistols is even found at the scene of a shooting like we've seen recently. If you were a PAO for the Dod or Army, how could you justify these entities being responsible for transferring these pistols to the public?
(No answer needed...strictly rhetorical).


Beyond all that, this program is still a concept and not even in execution! Yet this hasn't stopped the assumptions and incorrect info mentioned above.
People have been wanting information...that was finally sent out yesterday and was pretty darn clear on the decision points and processes to be implemented. Yet, within the span of 30 minutes, we had 5 threads going on the same subject and people misinterpreting even the simplest of info provided.
With that said, several threads have asked for a 1911-specific forum.
I'm sure when and if this program is put into execution, AND when there is actual data/info to share, there will be a sub-forum dedicated to such.
As a 1911/1911A1 aficionado, I for one am looking forward to the sales commencing, and having the same kinds of discussions about them here found on other 1911 forums, or even as we do Garands, carbines, 1903's, etc.

HTH,
Rob
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2017, 04:50 PM
cranehunter cranehunter is online now
 
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I for one almost wish that the news had not even been released until there was action on the bill, and a more definite timeline was projectable. Now that the genie is out of the bottle, far too much time will be wasted on policing these threads.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:11 PM
abtex1 abtex1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranehunter View Post
I for one almost wish that the news had not even been released until there was action on the bill, and a more definite timeline was projectable. Now that the genie is out of the bottle, far too much time will be wasted on policing these threads.
I agree.

Also, keep in mind that laws can be changed. 1911s were in a previous NDAA then stricken in the next one and were to be destroyed. And here we are again. This is round two. There's a million ways this could get shut down when you understand how government works. No reason not to expect another few back-and forth rounds on this matter.
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:18 PM
canes7 canes7 is offline
 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,314
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Thanks for the exhaustive response Rob. Hopefully that will lower the noise level a bit.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:21 PM
TucsonVTXF TucsonVTXF is offline
 
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How did the NRA back in the 60's get permission to sell 1911's direct from Army storage
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:30 PM
cranehunter cranehunter is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonVTXF View Post
How did the NRA back in the 60's get permission to sell 1911's direct from Army storage
Uhh, a lot has changed in fifty years...
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2017, 06:51 PM
ACampComLegacy ACampComLegacy is offline
 
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Location: Snow Hill NC
Posts: 810
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'What the boss says'. Answers the question.

Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Red View Post
Fair enough. I can't speak for the position of the leadership of CMP and don't purport to here...I'm only giving you the perspective from what I've been told and in the best interests of the forum, and ultimately the CMP.

First off, the base nature of this program is extremely political. And EVERY thread we have seen on the 1911s, as well as the Korean Garands/carbines and even the Phillipine Garands for the most part, turns political, and quick.

This is usually the number one reason we lock, or in many cases delete them because we don't need to provide any more fodder to the anti's or gun control entities. Many here don't seem to understand that these groups are well-organized and observe sites like this one...even more so as this legislation moves forward. Often times, we are our own worst enemies, esp with what we post on forums.

Whether it's slamming a particular party, body, person or office; 2A rants; or any other number of issues...it gets political, and often personal.
If you haven't seen the arguments and/or personal attacks, you weren't paying attention. Of course, over time (usually quickly) those posts are removed and in some cases, users removed (as happened in one case yesterday). Again...own worst enemies.
This forum is a reflection of the CMP and is sponsored by such, which is in turn chartered by Congress. Like 'em or not, regardless of party affiliation, they enable the CMP and this forum. We're simply not going to allow people to bite the hand that feeds us.


Next, more often than not these threads generate much more heat than light, and are basically non-additive or substantive in providing information in the vein of what the CMP Forum is...and a gossip mill is not within that purview. You want water cooler talk, go visit any one of millions of other forums out there.

And on a related note, many times, folks are flat out providing false information. And providing it over and over again.
To piggyback off of what Dan said above, we got together and allowed one thread to stay open in the Ask CMP section...stickied at the top. It took daily effort to keep it clean of the aforementioned political and personal posts and try to keep it focused on solid, objective data points.

Even with that, it still devolved into 65 pages of off-topic and/or repetitive info, ad nauseum... to the point that the same questions were being asked every couple of days with little to no effort by people to find the answers themselves.
Same with the NDAA itself. I HIGHLY suggest people read through section 1091 in its entirety and see for yourself the regulatory and legislative burden being put on the DoD, Army and the CMP to make this happen.
I'll even post the link for it...
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...bill/2810/text

Scroll about halfway down to find section 1091. Just the imposition of CMP to have an FFL only for the pistol transfers/sales is going to create additional resource and oversight burdens for them, not to mention having two separate business processes for firearms (One for 1911s...another for the rifles).
Then add in the many evaluations and reports to Congress as required by this bill, and it's obvious there are much larger and pressing concerns about this program. The fact that one of the annual reports to Congress includes information about the involvement of these pistols in any crimes should be painfully self-evident. And why the Dod and Army are very reluctant to pursue this...the risk capital here is huge. Just imagine the heat and scrutiny if one of these pistols is even found at the scene of a shooting like we've seen recently. If you were a PAO for the Dod or Army, how could you justify these entities being responsible for transferring these pistols to the public?
(No answer needed...strictly rhetorical).


Beyond all that, this program is still a concept and not even in execution! Yet this hasn't stopped the assumptions and incorrect info mentioned above.
People have been wanting information...that was finally sent out yesterday and was pretty darn clear on the decision points and processes to be implemented. Yet, within the span of 30 minutes, we had 5 threads going on the same subject and people misinterpreting even the simplest of info provided.
With that said, several threads have asked for a 1911-specific forum.
I'm sure when and if this program is put into execution, AND when there is actual data/info to share, there will be a sub-forum dedicated to such.
As a 1911/1911A1 aficionado, I for one am looking forward to the sales commencing, and having the same kinds of discussions about them here found on other 1911 forums, or even as we do Garands, carbines, 1903's, etc.

HTH,
Rob
__________________
Gramps; O-6 Dental Corp
Dad; O-5, 5 SFG
me; lowly E-x, Med Corp


Did any Americans STOP waving their US Flags on /09/11/01, because their arms were tired from waving it on 09/10/01?
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