Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Competitions > CMP Rules
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-23-2018, 03:49 PM
pccraig pccraig is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8
Default Equipment Question

I'm struggling to find an answer to this question looking through the rulebook. I have a 16" AR15 that I'd like to compete with using a 1-4.5 optic.

The flat top upper has a rail on the receiver, but no iron sights, front or rear. There is also, no sling swivel attached so I intend to add that on the end of the round handguard.

Is this upper legal for CMP service rifle competition ?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-24-2018, 08:36 AM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 727
Default

No I don't think a 16" barrel is legal for service rifle. Could be wrong but they turned down some at inspection last year.

Edit

4.1.1 M16/AR15-Type Service Rifle. The rifle must be an M16 U. S. Service Rifle or a similar AR15-type commercial rifle that is derived from the M16 service rifle design. Rifles must exhibit the general overall external appearance of the M-16 rifle or carbine

C) Upper receivers and/or barrels may not be changed during the firing of any event. Standard rifle length gas systems must be used for 20 inch barrels; carbine length gas systems may be used for barrels less than 20 inches.

Apparently this says Yes

Last edited by K31Schmidt; 01-24-2018 at 08:46 AM. Reason: Rules
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-24-2018, 08:51 AM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pccraig View Post
There is also, no sling swivel attached so I intend to add that on the end of the round handguard.

Is this upper legal for CMP service rifle competition ?
Round handguard? The 2 piece type?


4.1.1
e) Handguard. The receiver and handguard must be machined as separate parts. Standard M16-type service handguards (which may conceal a float tube) may be used or military design or aftermarket free floating rail systems may be used, provided they meet the following criteria. The rail may be of one or multiple piece design and be attached to the receiver by means of the rail itself or with a standard or special barrel nut. The rail must have a continuous Picatinny rail section on the 12 o’clock position that does not exceed the height of the receiver. The rail must have Picatinny rail sections at the 3, 6 and 9 o’clock positions for a minimum of half the length of the handguard. Key-Mod, M-Lok or similar mounting systems are permitted. Handguards may be of any length and the front sling swivel may be attached to the hand guard, but any front sling swivel location must be fixed 13 in. (+/- 0.5 in.) from the forward edge of the magazine well on M16 configured rifles or 8.0 in. (+/- 0.5 in.) on M4 configured rifles
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:51 AM
pccraig pccraig is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8
Default

Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-27-2018, 07:42 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrdg1 View Post
Are you maybe asking for Modern Military match? If so, no one seems to know if that configuration is legal (question being the float tube, if that's what you have). Definitely not normal for SR though, but I've seen 16" M4 type setups used in across course club matches. It gets interesting at 600 yard, although the last guy that tried it did OK (he was on target, sort of).

Not the OP but...................

".........Is this upper legal for CMP service rifle competition ?.........."

But yes, I've watched shooters try Carbines at 600yds too. You can do it, but it is noticeably less accurate than a rifle.
__________________
Service Rifle.... RIP .... 1884-2015

Last edited by Gewehr43; 01-27-2018 at 07:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-27-2018, 03:47 PM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 727
Default

The upper the OP is looking at does have a 1/7 barrel so that helps

Actually just help a buddy mount that same upper today and put in a spare trigger I had, were going to sight it in but it's raining here
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-27-2018, 10:13 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
I've watched shooters try Carbines at 600yds too. You can do it, but it is noticeably less accurate than a rifle.
Steve, There are a few factors that can result in a carbine being noticeably less accurate than a rifle. Many believe that the barrel length is a significant factor but I feel it is likely the least significant. A 16" barrel gives up about 150 fps over a 20" barrel and while higher velocity is helpful that loss of velocity doesn't make a huge difference. I believe that the shorter sight radius on the carbine (if iron sights are used) is very significant. I also think that barrel quality can be another significant factor. Most carbine barrels are not match quality barrels and some of the mil spec chrome lined barrels can be quite inferior when compared to a match grade 20" barrel. Also, since most carbines have thin barrels and do not have float tubes, sling tension can raise havoc with most carbines. I've seen sling tension cause up to a 3 MOA point of impact shift with a carbine depending on how tight the sling is. Rick
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-28-2018, 01:52 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
Steve, There are a few factors that can result in a carbine being noticeably less accurate than a rifle. Many believe that the barrel length is a significant factor but I feel it is likely the least significant. A 16" barrel gives up about 150 fps over a 20" barrel and while higher velocity is helpful that loss of velocity doesn't make a huge difference. I believe that the shorter sight radius on the carbine (if iron sights are used) is very significant. I also think that barrel quality can be another significant factor. Most carbine barrels are not match quality barrels and some of the mil spec chrome lined barrels can be quite inferior when compared to a match grade 20" barrel. Also, since most carbines have thin barrels and do not have float tubes, sling tension can raise havoc with most carbines. I've seen sling tension cause up to a 3 MOA point of impact shift with a carbine depending on how tight the sling is. Rick

Yes.... I'd agree with that entirely.......... well put.
__________________
Service Rifle.... RIP .... 1884-2015
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-30-2018, 12:13 AM
HighpowerRifleBrony HighpowerRifleBrony is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 86
Default

My M4gery's first match was the 2017 Texas SR XTC. I scored 96-1, 95-1, 93-2, 166-1. 450-5x.

At the home walk-and-paste, I've gotten into the 480s (even when it was a non-FF A2 with NM irons), but it can do better. I just need a detachable handle sight, or an optic with decent finger adjustable clicks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu1bCTx2-Gg
__________________
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-30-2018, 03:41 AM
Quarterbore Quarterbore is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 333
Default

I have an ACOG on one of my Carbines and I am very tempted to mount it on my 20-inch WO A4 CMP Build and try an optic this season. My ACOG is a TA-31F which is 4x.

As for what you listed in the opening post, I believe your scope is too magnified to be legal too. I recall the rules limit an optic to 4x but I’d need to recheck myself. Now, many local clubs will still ket you shoot for fun as I’ve seen all kinds of stuff on the line but your score will be lumped in with the open class that includes some very high end rifles so understand what your scores could be lower than the Pack.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 AM.