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  #21  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:45 AM
mncarbine mncarbine is offline
 
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Thanks...they said someone could help me. If I don't do the "official" match, that is OK with me. I sighted in the scope yesterday and did some more barrel break in shots. I haven't installed the match trigger yet so despite my own failings, the rifle isn't up to snuff yet. Also, the UBR stock isn't set up for the 1907 sling. Need to modify it, so for now, I will have a wimpy web sling. Don't have a spotting scope, don't have an anemometer...but then it isonly 100 yards so wind shouldn't be a big issue.

Appreciate your help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootsy View Post
Just ask to fire out of competition with what you have if it is a pure AIMR (GSM) Match.

I run a AIMR program along with a HP program. Garand Course A for AIMR and Presidents course for HP shooters. All fired at the same time. I am running a couple of dedicated 1000 point aggs in HP format this year in addition and my Match program allows the GSM guys to shoot their rifles if they think they have the sack to endure 100 rounds from the wood guns. Games shooters donít generally care for rapid sitting or more than 10 rounds on their feet

Walk and paste is a good way to begin. Jumping right into an EIC may be a bit overwhelming. You get ZERO sighting shots and it is full course (2/3/600).
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  #22  
Old 02-10-2018, 01:04 PM
Rootsy Rootsy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mncarbine View Post
Thanks...they said someone could help me. If I don't do the "official" match, that is OK with me. I sighted in the scope yesterday and did some more barrel break in shots. I haven't installed the match trigger yet so despite my own failings, the rifle isn't up to snuff yet. Also, the UBR stock isn't set up for the 1907 sling. Need to modify it, so for now, I will have a wimpy web sling. Don't have a spotting scope, don't have an anemometer...but then it isonly 100 yards so wind shouldn't be a big issue.

Appreciate your help!
I gave up the leather sling a year or two back and there is NOTHING wimpy about the web sling. Rig it correctly and you can compete with any other sling out there for 1/5 the cost.

Forget the wind meter. Get the spotting scope and stand. Install a 4.5lb 2 stage trigger. Work on positions and dry firing. Practice setting up your area outside of figuring it out in the heat of the moment at a match.
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  #23  
Old 02-10-2018, 04:10 PM
mncarbine mncarbine is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rootsy View Post
I gave up the leather sling a year or two back and there is NOTHING wimpy about the web sling. Rig it correctly and you can compete with any other sling out there for 1/5 the cost.

Forget the wind meter. Get the spotting scope and stand. Install a 4.5lb 2 stage trigger. Work on positions and dry firing. Practice setting up your area outside of figuring it out in the heat of the moment at a match.
Sorry for using the wrong words...obviously a web sling is strong enough, so wimpy wasn't the correct word. I have been watching videos from a guy who talks about how to install the sling and why he chose it over web slings. I believe he said he liked the stiffness and it was less prone to slide on his arm. Right now I am a sponge, soaking up whatever information I can get and having to decide what works for me out of all the options. Since I can't attach the 1907 sling now, without stock modifications, I will try the web sling. The 1907 sling was only $25 so not a biggie one way or the other.

I have a stand as I put something together from my photography gear which I think will work fine. As far as a scope, I see people buying the "cheap" GoSky scope but wish I knew someone who compared it to more expensive ones. Seems glass is the most expensive part of this sport.

I have a Geissele Hi-Speed National Match trigger. Just haven't installed it yet. Without it on, I have more excuses for being a bad shot

It is a good idea to work on things in advance of league play but it is also nice having people there to guide me I will attach the sling and see how it works for me.

There is still so much more "kit" I am missing, like the shooting jacket, the hat with wings on the bill, special glasses, a kneeling pad, shooting gloves, a cart to haul everything, a data book/holder, etc. I have also been putting together reloading equipment. The list never ends, and I bet before I get to the end of the list I will be replacing things I already have.

Appreciate your expert advise!
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  #24  
Old 02-10-2018, 05:45 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mncarbine View Post
I have been watching videos from a guy who talks about how to install the sling and why he chose it over web slings. I believe he said he liked the stiffness and it was less prone to slide on his arm. Right now I am a sponge, soaking up whatever information I can get and having to decide what works for me out of all the options. Since I can't attach the 1907 sling now, without stock modifications, I will try the web sling. The 1907 sling was only $25 so not a biggie one way or the other.
Leather 1907 slings vs M1 web slings are more a matter of personal preference than anything else. Many shooters have excelled using M1 slings just as many have excelled using 1907 slings. Both work well - it's just a matter of which one you like. 1907 slings are the more popular. However, don't even bother buying a $25 1907 slings. Inexpensive 1907 slings are useless for serious competition. If you do later want to go with a 1907 sling, buy a good one. I personally like Turner slings but there are other competition quality slings available from other sources, as well.
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  #25  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:50 PM
mncarbine mncarbine is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
Leather 1907 slings vs M1 web slings are more a matter of personal preference than anything else. Many shooters have excelled using M1 slings just as many have excelled using 1907 slings. Both work well - it's just a matter of which one you like. 1907 slings are the more popular. However, don't even bother buying a $25 1907 slings. Inexpensive 1907 slings are useless for serious competition. If you do later want to go with a 1907 sling, buy a good one. I personally like Turner slings but there are other competition quality slings available from other sources, as well.
(hitting myself on the head) - I thought when people said "web sling", they were referring to the "modern" synthetic types. I didn't know they meant the M1 sling. It happens I have two M1 slings on hand. One came with my CMP Garand which is more modern, i.e. OD colored, but I also have a surplus M1 sling that is the old khaki color.

Because the UBR stock has a narrower slot hole in it, the M1 sling won't work either until I get the 3rd party rear sling adapter. I am going to have to dig through my slings and find a narrower one to use for now, and it would be a nylon sling. I even have a SAW sling but it has hooks.

I understand like everything in the gun business there are a lot of buying options. I haven't installed or tried to use my cheap 1907 sling, but as far as my eye can tell, it looks like the others I have seen, or at least ones that are replicas of the 1907. I am betting the competition versions have been changed in some way or help me understand what makes them different, or should I say, better? Quality of hardware, thickness of leather, quality of leather?

Newbie in training
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  #26  
Old 02-11-2018, 08:16 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mncarbine View Post
(hitting myself on the head) - I thought when people said "web sling", they were referring to the "modern" synthetic types. I didn't know they meant the M1 sling. It happens I have two M1 slings on hand. One came with my CMP Garand which is more modern, i.e. OD colored, but I also have a surplus M1 sling that is the old khaki color.

Because the UBR stock has a narrower slot hole in it, the M1 sling won't work either until I get the 3rd party rear sling adapter. I am going to have to dig through my slings and find a narrower one to use for now, and it would be a nylon sling. I even have a SAW sling but it has hooks.

I understand like everything in the gun business there are a lot of buying options. I haven't installed or tried to use my cheap 1907 sling, but as far as my eye can tell, it looks like the others I have seen, or at least ones that are replicas of the 1907. I am betting the competition versions have been changed in some way or help me understand what makes them different, or should I say, better? Quality of hardware, thickness of leather, quality of leather?

Newbie in training
You must use either an M1 web sling or a 1907 leather sling per the equipment rules. An M1 sling can be any vintage. The sling loop on the UBR stock is 1.25" which is the same width as an M1 sling but it might not be wide enough to accommodate the metal tip on the M1 sling. It would be best to purchase a sling QD adapter and use it. There is a hole in the stock specifically for use with a QD adapter. That is the way to go. Magpul sells a couple of adapters and one is only about $15. Just go buy it and don't look back.

The competition versions of 1907 slings are generally thicker material than the cheap slings and the leather is of much higher quality. The competition slings do not stretch nearly as much as the cheap slings and the keepers fit tight enough to actually be useful.
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2018, 06:48 PM
mncarbine mncarbine is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
You must use either an M1 web sling or a 1907 leather sling per the equipment rules. An M1 sling can be any vintage. The sling loop on the UBR stock is 1.25" which is the same width as an M1 sling but it might not be wide enough to accommodate the metal tip on the M1 sling. It would be best to purchase a sling QD adapter and use it. There is a hole in the stock specifically for use with a QD adapter. That is the way to go. Magpul sells a couple of adapters and one is only about $15. Just go buy it and don't look back.

The competition versions of 1907 slings are generally thicker material than the cheap slings and the leather is of much higher quality. The competition slings do not stretch nearly as much as the cheap slings and the keepers fit tight enough to actually be useful.
OK.... Since I was unable to get a 1.25" strap into the UBR stock sling hole, I measured it. The sling hole is oblong, and at the apex is 1.25" as you said, however since you are putting a rectangular sling that is 1.25" long into the hole, it doesn't fit. After using a ruler to confirm the 1.25" length of the hole, from the very tips of the hole, I used a caliper and it came out to 1.215".

I saw one person with a QD sling mount at the match today although it wasn't a UBR stock. He had a 1907 sling. Seems the rules only care about the location of the front sling mount and don't seem to care how or where you attach the rear end of sling, or if you even connect it at all?

I think your QD connection is a good idea which I will pursue. The Magpul version seems to have the release button extending into the hole whereas Midwest Industries has a "flush mount" button. Seems the flush mount version would have less change of accidental release, although that may never be the problem.

There were only six shooters at the match this morning. I am guessing only three were in full compliance. Two had synthetic slings, one had a 6X scope (dialed to 4.5X), but not compliant. They admitted they were more about getting people out to shoot, even if they weren't compliant.

They said the club owns a spotting scope which they can bring next time for me to use and I can get a shooting jacket at some point.

The closest club to me only offers "CMP Games" matches that I would be excluded from although they say they allow other rifles to join in, however they told me there are no ARs. The third closest club has a mid-range (600 yard) F-AR15 match that is for ARs but it isn't a NRA or CMP match. They won't return phone calls or emails. The closest club offering EIC matches is 3+ hours away and would require staying overnight to attend matches there.

So it seems I only have one local choice to shoot for NRA points if I understand how it is done.

Thanks again!
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  #28  
Old 02-11-2018, 08:26 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mncarbine View Post

I saw one person with a QD sling mount at the match today although it wasn't a UBR stock. He had a 1907 sling. Seems the rules only care about the location of the front sling mount and don't seem to care how or where you attach the rear end of sling, or if you even connect it at all?

I think your QD connection is a good idea which I will pursue. The Magpul version seems to have the release button extending into the hole whereas Midwest Industries has a "flush mount" button. Seems the flush mount version would have less change of accidental release, although that may never be the problem.
Yep, you can use a QD sling swivel with either a 1907 sling or an M1 sling. Pick the QD sling swivel that you like the best. I can tell you that the Magpul QD's work well but I bet others do too.

You are correct that you don't need to have the rear of the sling attached when using the sling for support. In fact, an M1 sling is not attached at the rear when used for support. However, when not using the sling for support (in the offhand position), it is best to have the sling in a "parade" configuration which does require it to be secured at both ends so it doesn't flap around. Besides, a sling can be used as a carry strap and that is sort of convenient but does require that the sling be attached at both ends.

As I suggested earlier, just purchase a QD sling swivel and never worry about this issue again. There are other things that need to be pursued so put the easy ones to bed as soon as possible.
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  #29  
Old 02-11-2018, 10:35 PM
mncarbine mncarbine is offline
 
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Originally Posted by brokemf View Post
Hey I just checked both rule books and can't seem to find where it says you can't use that stock in either match what am I missing?
I am guessing these shooters have been doing this since the pea shooter. I doubt they have looked at the 2016 never the less the 2018 rules.

I disagreed with them, but you hate to be the rookie in the crowd and have to correct the old timers. When I read the rules, I didn't see anything that would exclude them...I stood with my new rifle among the six of them including the league director and range officer and they pretty much all said my rifle wasn't compliant for one reason or the other. At least my "fresh blood" brings newly learned information with me
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  #30  
Old 02-12-2018, 02:08 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mncarbine View Post
I am guessing these shooters have been doing this since the pea shooter. I doubt they have looked at the 2016 never the less the 2018 rules.

I disagreed with them, but you hate to be the rookie in the crowd and have to correct the old timers. When I read the rules, I didn't see anything that would exclude them...I stood with my new rifle among the six of them including the league director and range officer and they pretty much all said my rifle wasn't compliant for one reason or the other. At least my "fresh blood" brings newly learned information with me
If I understand your rifle configuration correctly, what makes your rifle incompatible with the Games Rules (specifically for the Modern Military Matches) is the free float handguard and probably the weight. It isn't the UBR stock.
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