Go Back   CMP Forums > CMP Sales > CMP 1911
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-14-2018, 09:58 AM
bradwh bradwh is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 5
Default Military ID in Packet

The order form states that a copy of a military ID suffices for establishing US citizenship, membership in an Affiliated Organization, and proof of marksmanship activity. However, copying a military ID is a violation of Title 18, U.S. Code, Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701. Would a current copy of an LES or ERB/ORB suffice instead?

Edit: Alternatively, is there something in law or regulation, that allows IDs to be copied for the CMP?

Last edited by bradwh; 06-15-2018 at 06:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-14-2018, 11:23 AM
Quicksilvergoat Quicksilvergoat is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DFW Metroplex
Posts: 455
Default

This is my opinion and my opinion alone. The word “colorable” is often left out when considering the USC and there are exceptions for government agencies. The CMP itself isn’t a government agency but is required to play by the rules laid out by several government agencies to conduct business. The Army, Congress, and the ATF.

You also have to consider the DODI which reads;

6.1.7. Any person willfully altering, damaging, lending, counterfeiting, or using these cards in any unauthorized manner is subject to fine or imprisonment or both, as prescribed by Sections 499, 506, 509, 701, or 1001 of 18 U.S.C. (reference (l))1 . Section 701 of 18 U.S.C., of reference (l), prohibits photographing or otherwise reproducing or possessing Uniformed Services ID cards in an unauthorized manner, under penalty of fine or imprisonment or both. Unauthorized or fraudulent use of the DD Form 2, DD Form 1173, or the DD Form 1173-1 would exist, if a bearer uses the card in a manner that would enable the bearer to obtain benefits and privileges to which he or she is not entitled. Photocopying of the DD Forms 2, DD Form 1173, or DD Form 1173-1 to facilitate medical care processing, check cashing, or administering other military-related benefits to eligible beneficiaries are examples of authorized photocopying.

Would this not fall under “other military-related benefits”?

If I knew any JAG officers or had one local I would present this for clarification.

Last edited by Quicksilvergoat; 06-14-2018 at 11:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-14-2018, 11:41 AM
DDRode DDRode is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Benson, MN
Posts: 1,651
Default

Oops...

Looks like I've been violating those particular mil regs ever since I started doin' business with the CMP back in '97!!!

Leavenworth here I come (lookin' forward to those three hots & a cot)!!!

Shame on me!!!

__________________
Dion D. Rode SFC-13F4H (RET)
USN 66-70 (VAH-123, NAVSTA KEF, VAW-126)/USNR 72-74/USAR 83-90 (3/14FA-205TH INF BDE)/ MNARNG 90-00 (34TH "RED BULL" INF DIV)

Last edited by DDRode; 06-15-2018 at 08:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:27 PM
brianm423 brianm423 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 3
Default

Blank out your face and you're fine. I only do this for organizations I trust...and CMP is one of them.

If you don't want to do it, then I would call and ask for other options to prove military service. WAYYY more info on your Record Brief that I wouldn't want to be passing out.

Last edited by brianm423; 06-14-2018 at 02:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:29 PM
FLD FLD is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Holland MI
Posts: 129
Default

"except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law".
After complying with every requirement pertaining to the sale of these pistols, it's possible the CMP has received permission to accept a copy of military ID.
__________________
I promise I won't ask any stupid 1911 questions.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:23 PM
alphawhiskey alphawhiskey is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 56
Default

I asked this over in the regular Ask CMP forum. One of the admins said that they'd take any reasonable proof (Like an LES, ERB/ORB, or Current copy of orders)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:39 AM
bradwh bradwh is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLD View Post
"except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law".
After complying with every requirement pertaining to the sale of these pistols, it's possible the CMP has received permission to accept a copy of military ID.
Good point. I edited my original post to reflect that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphawhiskey View Post
I asked this over in the regular Ask CMP forum. One of the admins said that they'd take any reasonable proof (Like an LES, ERB/ORB, or Current copy of orders)
Do you know where that response was? I couldn't find it.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:57 AM
Shomway Shomway is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,815
Send a message via AIM to Shomway
Default

Here is the thread he posted to. He is the #3 post but will have to read through it to find responses to his question.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=228307
__________________
31- 100% ITrader feedback prior to removal.
Feedback....http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=209950
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:54 AM
Big_Red Big_Red is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 1,838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradwh View Post
The order form states that a copy of a military ID suffices for establishing US citizenship, membership in an Affiliated Organization, and proof of marksmanship activity. However, copying a military ID is a violation of Title 18, U.S. Code, Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701. Would a current copy of an LES or ERB/ORB suffice instead?

Edit: Alternatively, is there something in law or regulation, that allows IDs to be copied for the CMP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shomway View Post
Here is the thread he posted to. He is the #3 post but will have to read through it to find responses to his question.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=228307

bradwh,
To answer your first question, yes, copies of your DD214, LES, or PCS Orders would suffice in lieu of copying your military ID/CAC.

As far as second question, I will see if I can get an answer to that one.


As Shomway mentions, it was brought up in that thread; however, none of the admins or customer service answered it as previously cited...only other members confirming they have used some of the above items to verify military service.


Which segues to next point, not specific to you or Shomway (who has been great responding to folks here), but in general and posted elsewhere:

ETA: As a notice to everyone so as not to take it personal, will be going through the various threads here and in the 1911 section over next couple of days to clean up all the chaff and supposition posts...entirely too much heat and little light, with same questions getting asked/answered multiple times but lost in the static.
Will edit/provide answers directly from CMP where applicable as they simply don't have the time to monitor and keep up with all this.

Rob
__________________
Proud son of a Vietnam Veteran (1969, 1970) - In memoriam
OEF - '02, '08 / OIF - '03, '10 / OND - '11 / OIR/OEF - '15

CMP Customer / GCA Member / VFW & NRA Life Member


Feedback Thread: http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=137544
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:36 AM
cmp1911admin cmp1911admin is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 116
Default Military ID

Hopefully, I can clear some of this up, If you do not wish to send a copy of your Military ID Card with your packet you have the following options:

1. A copy of you current orders, with name and rank/ current LES. If E-5 or above works for everything, If below E-5 must include proof of Citizenship.

2. Copy of DD 214 (NON-RETIRED)will only work for "Marksmanship or other Firearms Related Activity. It will also work for proof of Citizenship" if it lists "Place of Birth", Place of Entry does not count. It does not work for Club Membership.

3. Copy of DD 214 (RETIRED) If E-5 and above works for everything, if below E-5 needs proof of Citizenship.

I hope this makes things a little clearer.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16 AM.