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  #21  
Old 07-22-2017, 07:12 AM
rickgman rickgman is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10thmountain View Post
I enjoy working the pits. Something awesome about being down range under fire! Albeit safely. LOL. Like I said before a traditional A2 Service rifle match could easily be carved out. Plus I dig my A2.
I agree that there is something interesting about having live ammo fired over your head - without your life being on the line. However, after 20 years or so you will simply want to shoot and quit messing around with evolutions that take time and cause you to concentrate on something other than shooting. Once you shoot electronic targets, you will really like them. They are the future of marksmanship competition. If you want to shoot a traditional A2 service rifle, there are CMP modern military matches that would be right up your alley. I saw a fairly wide variety of weapons at the Modern Military Match yesterday at Camp Perry. There were M1A's with iron sights, A2 type AR's with iron sights, M4 carbines with optics, etc. Nick Till was shooting about 3 targets down from me and he was shooting an M1A with iron sights. He shot great and out performed literally hundreds of shooter with optics. It's no the arrow, it's the Indian.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2017, 10:29 AM
10thmountain 10thmountain is online now
 
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I have experience with the electronic targeting system at the TMP. They work well. Have not however shot a match there. I utilize the TMP to make adjustments on my rifles to get the dope and then go shoot at my usual club where we pull pits. Electronic targets are very nice but very frustrating when they fail. The 100 yard range at the TMP can be wonky. But I do hope more clubs use a few of them.
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:11 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Deuceguy View Post
Many people think there should be separate categories. It will change to that, but I hope not too late before too many people just give up. There is no point of shooting for the same prize in a iron vs scope match. I think a lot changes are going to happen. No choice.. No one my age group and younger want to shoot with wood and steel. If there is any hope to continue match shooting there will have to be various categories modern military matches allowing different scopes, ar 10s, M14 EBR clones, etc. This will certainly attract more younger shooters to match shooting. A modern sniper match is also needed.

The iron sight service rifle matches shouldn't have been messed with. Cheaper match fees would also be nice. I hope the CMP is paying attention to this.
My concern with your comments is that one reason we had scopes introduced was to "get more, younger shooters" involved.
So far that hasn't happened at all...........
Participation, so far, is still dropping.
Instead the shooters using scopes aren't new shooters but "old" ones trying scopes to up their scores...........

So to introduce even more, other types of categories............. I fear would fail too...................

We already have the Service rifle, Modern military and the classic categories............... how many more do we need?

And you expect the CMP to compete with the PRS competitions?
That will fail................
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Last edited by Gewehr43; 07-22-2017 at 01:15 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:19 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
This is all great input. Younger shooters want something other than what is being offered and change needs to happen.

Just out of the blue here but is there not a way to cause CMP to have a shooters conference and seek improvements / recommendations so they can tune matches to meet the future and not satisfy 1937 era shooting philosophy // rituals .

I totally agree with his man's opinions . The iron sight Service Rifle Match should have been left as is , and a new one held for optic / new generation Service Rifles.

There is room for the classic historic type Service Rifle Matches and for newer versions with optics.... if CMP has a committee that does match development, its all about 2 days discussion and work up to come up with solutions and put into play. Take 1 day if you give the task to 2 Non Commissioned Officers and not civilians...
Same thing........... I'm not sure if you or I know what a younger shooter wants but creating a dizzying array of classifications I doubt will get any sort of new shooters to the sport.

I do agree that the CMP might try another way to get our input though.

BTW if your 1937 comment was in regards to your sling rant........ it's a 1907 sling, not 1937.
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:24 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Using a scope isn't a guarantee of beating irons.
It is the Indian, not the bow.

I've watched good shooters with irons or scopes shoot good scores.
I've watched mediocre shooters with scopes shoot mediocre scores.

A HM will shoot a HM score with an M14, AR or scoped whatever.........
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:28 PM
10thmountain 10thmountain is online now
 
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The kids all love 3 gun and GSSF.
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:38 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Part of what I'm getting at is, instead of the CMP trying to have a category for everyone to get more shooters, it promote the unique shooting opportunities it offers.

If you want fast paced, high round count pistol shooting....... go IPSC.
The CMP won't ever replace them.

If you want accuracy based competition with a pistol......... go CMP.
No one else offers that.

If you want fast paced variable course sniper matches with any sort of rifle..... Go PRS. The CMP can't compete.

If you want solely precision based courses with any sort of rifle..... Go F Class. The CMP can't compete.

What the CMP should be providing is a unique competition for the Service rifle and pistol shooters to compete in...............

Trying to replace those other branches of competition will fail.

What the CMP should be doing is advertising just hwo unique and challenging the various CMP matches are............ that will bring in more shooters.
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  #28  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:40 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10thmountain View Post
The kids all love 3 gun and GSSF.
Yes........ exactly and the CMP isn't set up at all for that.
So instead of trying to mirror those matches, instead show the kids how challenging the CMP matches can be.............
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  #29  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:41 PM
10thmountain 10thmountain is online now
 
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Agreed.
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  #30  
Old 07-22-2017, 07:04 PM
rickgman rickgman is online now
 
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I, too, agree with Gewehr43. The CMP can't be everything to everybody. They have already increased the type of matches that they offer relative to the old DCM. The DCM only offered EIC and national trophy matches. The CMP started with the Garand Match and has expanded the CMP Games matches tremendously from that first match in 1998. There were only 331 shooters in the initial match. I know - I was there. There are a number of things that I don't agree with relative to equipment rules and the courses of fire but I certainly do not disagree with the concept of matches which concentrate on precision shooting of military small arms. There is room for other disciplines also but there is something unique about precision marksmanship in today's world.
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