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  #1  
Old 08-10-2012, 10:57 AM
Random Guy Random Guy is online now
 
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Default Photos of real vs reproduction M84 sniper scope

I recall a post on this forum where a member was asking how to tell the difference b/t a real USGI M84 scope vs the current reproduction M84 scope as offered by Numrich, SportsmansGuide, etc. Since I now own both a real USGI and reproduction version of the M84 scope, and the real M84 scopes cost about 2.5 to 3 times as much as the reproductions, here's some pictures that illustrate the subtle differences for those interested in this topic. I hope others will find this informative.

From a few feet away, they look very much a like, except of course the slightly faded bluing on the original 1950's era M84 scope, as compared to the deep blue/black finish on the new Chinese made reproduction scope:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...84/topview.jpg

IMO, the quickest way to tell the two apart is the data plate on the right side of scope. The original used white painted letters that are slightly recessed into the data plate (esp. the serial # which appears stamped), whereas the reproduction uses silver "paint" for the lettering that is not recessed at all, and the lettering/font style is a little smaller in size as well:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...rretplates.jpg

The issue? Well, if someone replaced the repro data plate with an original data plate in very good condition, it would become harder to tell the two apart at first glance, but there are still 3 or 4 things that differeniate the reproduction scope from the original.

For example, the original sunshade has a pronounced "bevel" on the leading edge of the sunshade. In reloading terms is looks like a "roll crimp." Whereas the sunshade on reproduction has a much more squared off leading edge and effectively no "bevel" on the front of that sunshade. (Original is on left, repo is on right)
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...4/sunshade.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l.../angleview.jpg
(I read somewhere that the repo sunshade is made of plastic, but that does not appear correct on my sample, which I believe is also made of metal.)

If someone were really unscrupulous and replaced both the data plate and the sunshade from the reproduction with real USGI parts and tried to sell it on eBay as an "original" M84 (assuming the bluing b/t the sunshade and scope body matched up exactly - unlikely in my opinion), one would still be able to discern the reproduction scope due to the different placement of the "L" and 'R" letters on the turrets.

If you look closely at this photo, you will note that the "L" letter on the bottom scope (real M84) is placed at the bottom on the turret relative to the other lettering/numbers. In the reproduction scope (top of picture), you can see that the same "L" letter is placed in the "middle" or the "center" of the turret relative to the other lettering. The lettering font is also a little larger on the original scope:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...4/IMG_3358.jpg

The same applies to the "R" letter positioning being placed on the bottom of the turret on the original M84 scope. In addition, at least on my original USGI scope, there appears to be part # "7227424" stamped on the bottom on the scope turret housing. The reproduction does not have this number. (However, I inspected another real M84 that did not appear to have that part number as well, so this # could be related to the original manufactuter, which could I think is either Libby-Owens-Ford or Leupold Stevens)
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...bottomview.jpg

So, while they ostensibly look very much alike, there are 3 or 4 physical differences b/t the original M84 and reproduction M84 scope based on my sample (I bought my reproduction from SportsmansGuide in 2011, it came wrapped in foil, inside a plain white box with no instructions).

Note: I have not mounted or used either scope yet on my M1D, so I can not speak to any functional differences b/t the two scopes. The turrets seem to feel similar thus far. Looking through the two reticles, they look the same, but I think the reproduction has better parallex capability as its easier to focus on the reticle and field objects at varying degrees of eye relief. In other words, the original scope seems to have a somewhat narrower range for proper eye relief, but otherwise they look and feel similar.

My guess is that I'll use the reproduction scope when I use/shoot my M1D, and hold onto the real M84 scope for its collectible value. (I have a real USGI scope mount as well, and don't recommend the reproduction scope mount given what I have read about the steel probably being too soft for its intended purpose).

BTW: My original M84 scope is in very good condition overall for its age, with no flakes or spots in the optics, but it has a missing/broken tab on the left turret cover. If anyone has an original, surplus cover in great shape, or a NOS cover that they bought from Sarco before they sold out of them, and would sell it to me for a reasonable price, please let me know, thanks.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l.../M84/cover.jpg

Last edited by Random Guy; 04-08-2017 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Can't change title, should be "Photos of real..."
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  #2  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:14 AM
tjtorborg tjtorborg is offline
 
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Wow, very nice!

thanks,

Tom
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:21 AM
Kansas Poster Kansas Poster is online now
 
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Very good report.

I had to go get my two M1Ds to look at the original M84s. They are just as you report. Do not have a repro to look at.

Thanks.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:11 AM
whiskey6eod whiskey6eod is offline
 
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"there appears to be part # "7227424" stamped on the bottom on the scope turret housing. ......this # could be related to the original manufactuter, which could I think is either Libby-Owens-Ford or Leupold Stevens"

You are correct. Additionally the data plates differ between LOF and LS models.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:10 AM
glassmountains glassmountains is offline
 
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Great presentation. Also, isn't the part number stamped on the adjustment knob "collar" (that the scope body passes through) of the original? Thanks

Last edited by glassmountains; 08-14-2012 at 08:13 AM.
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  #6  
Old 08-14-2012, 08:42 AM
Random Guy Random Guy is online now
 
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Default Adjustment knob collar vs scope turret housing?...

...not sure what the adjustment knob "collar" is...but maybe you are referring to what I am calling the "scope turret housing," which does have a part # 7227424 on the bottom of this housing - but the presence of that number depends on the manufacturer (LS vs LOF). In any event, the 7227424 is the only part number that I see on my original M84 scope.

Perhaps someone else can explain the differences b/t the two data plates on the USGI M84 scopes. I think it has something to do with the border around the serial #....
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:55 AM
glassmountains glassmountains is offline
 
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Yes, "scope turret housing". Thanks
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:01 AM
gunny gunny is offline
 
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In addition to the original I got from Konstantine, I got one of CMPs grade C scopes. The only thing it needed was the sun shade and one turret cover. Numrich's turret cover has a slightly different ridge/shoulder placement and is discernable when placed side by side with an original. The shade SARCO was selling at the time has the "rolled" leading edge.
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2012, 04:20 PM
whiskey6eod whiskey6eod is offline
 
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RG - correct again - the border is present on LOF and not L-S made scopes. The "box" should encompass the serial number only - not the words - not the words and numbers....just the numbers.
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2012, 05:58 PM
flying2275 flying2275 is offline
 
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Thanks for this post. it should make it easier for someone looking at a supposed real scope and make sure its real. How many people went to the safe and checked their real scope?
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