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  #21  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:13 PM
nf1e nf1e is offline
 
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Location: Connecticut
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A few USGI parts on a Chinese M14 and you have as good a clone as you will find in any market. Much closer to Mil spec than any of our commercial reproductions.
Art B
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  #22  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:28 PM
LWG LWG is offline
 
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Location: Iowa
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This is a little off topic, but still concerns Chinese quality, or in this case, the lack of it. About 15 years ago a local farm store was selling Norinco SKS's full of cosmoline for $99. The display rifle didn't look bad so I bought one in a box and took it home to safely sit in the back of the gun cabinet for years. Finally dug it out a couple of years ago to clean it up. After removing the grease, I was amazed at the machine work on the receiver. It looked like someone had built a receiver out of a block of metal using a Dremel and a rat tail file. I cleaned it up and carried it into the next local gun show and sold it for $250. Since then, I have picked up two Yugo SKS's and one Russian SKS. The machine work on all of them is a near match for USA built products and they perform flawlessly. I still shudder when I think about putting a live round in a ChiCom rifle.

Last edited by LWG; 09-04-2012 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Correct grammatical error
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  #23  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:53 PM
spankybear spankybear is offline
 
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Location: Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWG View Post
This is a little off topic, but still concerns Chinese quality, or in this case, the lack of it. About 15 years ago a local farm store was selling Norinco SKS's full of cosmoline for $99. The display rifle didn't look bad so I bought one in a box and took it home to safely sit in the back of the gun cabinet for years. Finally dug it out a couple of years ago to clean it up. After removing the grease, I was amazed at the machine work on the receiver. It looked like someone had built a receiver out of a block of metal using a Dremel and a rat tail file. I cleaned it up and carried it into the next local gun show and sold it for $250. Since then, I have picked up two Yugo SKS's and one Russian SKS. The machine work on all of them is a near match for USA built products and they perform flawlessly. I still shudder when I think about putting a live round in a ChiCom rifle.
Back in the day when you could find barrels filled with Chicom SKSes I got one for like 49 bucks. This think look like it had seen 5 wars and then drug behind a truck for 2000 miles... None of the numbers matched. I shot the crap out of that... Was one of the most accurate rifles I owned back then. And it function flawlessly. With the cheap spam can of chicom ammo... If I remember right 1440 rounds on stripper clips was like 50 bucks...

Show me a chicom rifle that has failed. I sure they are out there but you really don't hear about it.

The Chicom M14 is just as nice as any on the market today. Little bit of work you have a nice rifle. Just like any on the market today... Out of the box they need a little bit of work.. Hell if it wasn't for slick willie we too could get them like they do in Canada for 400 bucks...
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2012, 10:02 AM
M14 M14 is offline
 
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A little bit of work is what I feel to be an understatement. I have worked on dozens of them and found that the biggest issue is never heard on any forums, and gunsmiths don't like to talk about it....Lug contact. Then there is headspace issues.

I am not surprised though, because if you bring up the issue of lug contact on SAI's, LRB's, or 762's, it is taboo everywhere. Mysteriously all the threads disappear without a trace. Strange to say the least, when such a safety hazard is involved. I urge all of you chicom owners, and every other M14 rifle owner, to have your lug contact and headspace checked by a competent and knowledgeable smith. It is also a good idea to have your freebore area checked in the chamber, especially on a chicom. Keep the chamber clean ! Don't shoot foreign mil-surp unless you know your chamber headspace, and the cartridge's headspace that you intend to shoot in it.
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  #25  
Old 09-05-2012, 08:07 PM
spankybear spankybear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M14 View Post
A little bit of work is what I feel to be an understatement. I have worked on dozens of them and found that the biggest issue is never heard on any forums, and gunsmiths don't like to talk about it....Lug contact. Then there is headspace issues.

I am not surprised though, because if you bring up the issue of lug contact on SAI's, LRB's, or 762's, it is taboo everywhere. Mysteriously all the threads disappear without a trace. Strange to say the least, when such a safety hazard is involved. I urge all of you chicom owners, and every other M14 rifle owner, to have your lug contact and headspace checked by a competent and knowledgeable smith. It is also a good idea to have your freebore area checked in the chamber, especially on a chicom. Keep the chamber clean ! Don't shoot foreign mil-surp unless you know your chamber headspace, and the cartridge's headspace that you intend to shoot in it.
Not to argue with you but if this is in deed a safety hazard what is the hazard? I am sure if this was such a hazard it would be all over the net. I haven't seen too many kabooms with any type of M14 type weapon. Are you saying that this info just disappears? I do believe there are quite a few chicom M14 still around. I would think you would hear if there was an issue with lug contact. I understand that more is desirable but where is the documented safety hazard with less? Given you said that chicom barrel free bore maybe a problem. Too little and the pressure curve is going to shoot up way too high... and if this is the case again I would think you would see signs all over the net with popped primers or worse. Again you are saying all of this info is disappearing from the net?

What do you look for. If it's a safety issue I am sure any info you post here would not disappear. I think most here would want to know. Even if it's SAI, LRB or 7.62.

Who would you say is a competent and knowledgeable smith? Warbird, Smith Enterprise, Ted Brown, Fulton?
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  #26  
Old 09-05-2012, 09:12 PM
Warbirds Custom Guns Warbirds Custom Guns is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M14 View Post
A little bit of work is what I feel to be an understatement. I have worked on dozens of them and found that the biggest issue is never heard on any forums, and gunsmiths don't like to talk about it....Lug contact. Then there is headspace issues.

I am not surprised though, because if you bring up the issue of lug contact on SAI's, LRB's, or 762's, it is taboo everywhere. Mysteriously all the threads disappear without a trace. Strange to say the least, when such a safety hazard is involved. I urge all of you chicom owners, and every other M14 rifle owner, to have your lug contact and headspace checked by a competent and knowledgeable smith. It is also a good idea to have your freebore area checked in the chamber, especially on a chicom. Keep the chamber clean ! Don't shoot foreign mil-surp unless you know your chamber headspace, and the cartridge's headspace that you intend to shoot in it.
I guess you haven't been around long because "lug contact" has been talked about for at least the last 15 years or so that I'm aware of.
In fact, I've brought up the issue on Chinese rifles many times for at least 27 years since I started working on them in 1984.

You mention freebore but don't you mean the "throat" just in front of the chamber ?
if that's the case, the throat is .050 longer on a Chinese rifle. I've seen .100 in a couple. It has nothing to do with headspace & it's the reason Chinese rifles don't blow up when fired with excessive headspace.





.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-2012, 10:18 PM
dx'd dx'd is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: socal, normexico, same thing
Posts: 462
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Canadian friends are bragging about the $400 Norinco m14 clones and want to show them off to us southerners. Can they legally bring them across the border?
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  #28  
Old 09-06-2012, 06:06 AM
nf1e nf1e is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,064
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Thank you Warbird Custom Guns. At last , a bit of common , or should I say uncommon sense. You have hit the nail on the head. Way too many folks that are just learning the rifle for some reason feel that they are experts. Much of this commentary does little other than confusing the issues. As you mentioned, these topics have been covered at nauseum over the years. Keep up the good work.
Semper Fi
Art B
Sgt USMC 66-72 RVN 67-68
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2012, 05:20 PM
M14 M14 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: south mississippi
Posts: 811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spankybear View Post
Not to argue with you but if this is in deed a safety hazard what is the hazard? I am sure if this was such a hazard it would be all over the net. I haven't seen too many kabooms with any type of M14 type weapon. Are you saying that this info just disappears? I do believe there are quite a few chicom M14 still around. I would think you would hear if there was an issue with lug contact. I understand that more is desirable but where is the documented safety hazard with less? Given you said that chicom barrel free bore maybe a problem. Too little and the pressure curve is going to shoot up way too high... and if this is the case again I would think you would see signs all over the net with popped primers or worse. Again you are saying all of this info is disappearing from the net?

What do you look for. If it's a safety issue I am sure any info you post here would not disappear. I think most here would want to know. Even if it's SAI, LRB or 7.62.

Who would you say is a competent and knowledgeable smith? Warbird, Smith Enterprise, Ted Brown, Fulton?
1st highlight- There has been three M14's blown up in the last three months. That's just the ones I know about. A half dozen more from several years ago I found on the net. The rifle was designed to have contact on both lugs, not just one lug. Usually the left side has a gap on many commercial models. if you do not think it could be a hazard in a failure situation, then you are at odds with the original designer, John Garand. Mr. Garand was a pretty smart guy. So smart, that he in fact, designed a third safety lug, in the event the front two were compromised. He must have had a very good reason. My personal belief is that he did it after his destructive testing of the M1, and all this, to keep the shooter (soldier) safe in the face of a catastrophic failure. Which was my only intent in posting the previous time. But no good deed goes unpunished (see below). The more I deal with humans, the more I learn this is true. That's why I spend most of my time with horses.

2nd- Good you think so. Now perhaps you can direct me to the link of the first 762mm thread that was posted here when I started this sub forum ? Sorry, you can't do that, because it no longer exist here. It was completely deleted by the mods. The reason ? Detrimental information was posted by me about current manufacturers. Never mind that it was the truth and backed up by evidence.

3rd- Sorry, I do not recommend smiths anymore, to anyone. That will have to be your own personal selection.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbirds Custom Guns View Post
I guess you haven't been around long because "lug contact" has been talked about for at least the last 15 years or so that I'm aware of.
In fact, I've brought up the issue on Chinese rifles many times for at least 27 years since I started working on them in 1984.

You mention freebore but don't you mean the "throat" just in front of the chamber ?
if that's the case, the throat is .050 longer on a Chinese rifle. I've seen .100 in a couple. It has nothing to do with headspace & it's the reason Chinese rifles don't blow up when fired with excessive headspace.

.
Thank you, I am well aware of the meaning, description, and proper terminologly of the "freebore area", and it's average length, diameter, and function for various cartridge chambers. I am also aware of the fact that it has nothing to do with the headspace of a chamber, cartridge, combination. I was alluding to the pressure ramifications on shorter ("throat") freebored barrels, such as some aftermarket offerings. Take Canadian Arsenal barrels as compared to chicoms, for example.

I have been around long enough to know that every time it ("lug contact") is brought up by me, about any specific maker and current receiver offerings, it is gone shortly. Usually without a trace. Three forums and counting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nf1e View Post
Thank you Warbird Custom Guns. At last , a bit of common , or should I say uncommon sense. You have hit the nail on the head. Way too many folks that are just learning the rifle for some reason feel that they are experts. Much of this commentary does little other than confusing the issues. As you mentioned, these topics have been covered at nauseum over the years. Keep up the good work.
Semper Fi
Art B
Sgt USMC 66-72 RVN 67-68
Why don't you just say what you really think.

Allow me.
Way too many folks for some reason, feel like they always have to cut someone else down, to make themselves feel important. When in reality, if they wanted to be a part of something, or help someone, they should say something like:
Please tell us, how someone suggesting you have your lug contact and headspace checked, can CONFUSE THE ISSUES, OR NOT BE A GOOD COMMON SENSE SUGGESTION !!

Ignorance- Not knowing any better. Uneducated.
Stupidity- Knowing better, but doing it anyway: A jerk.
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  #30  
Old 09-06-2012, 06:57 PM
nf1e nf1e is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,064
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Chill Rip. That chip of yours seems to be growing. It is not all about you , or your opinions. Please try not to continue your shadow boxing. All it will go is tire you out.
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