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  #11  
Old 10-25-2018, 10:59 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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It's a real Unertl 1 1/4'' with lyman mounts as Neil said.

The USMC Unertls were those, but they made them commercially too. Without seeing the serial and rollmark it's impossible to say. Though I do believe it to be a real scope most likely.

The Marine museum has a lot of rifles that have been messed with, including at least one of the Unertl rifles.

For instance, they have Smith Corona 03A3's that are drilled and tapped and made into 03A4's. Did the Marines do that, or did they build them for some display for the museum at some time?

Personally everything I have seen of the Marine Museum, you can't rely too much on what is, or isn't correct by what is there.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2018, 11:04 PM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender3 View Post
Maybe the curators don't always get everything correct. Here's a picture of a USMC Sniper Rifle in the Museum. The scope appears to have modern mounts and a 1" tube.


By the way you are sort of correct. The Chinese scopes copied the Lyman mounts. So that is why in this pic they look modern to you.

The Chinese didn't copy the right Unertl mounts. They copied the lyman ones.

Also they didn't copy the correct 1 1/4'' Unertl. They copied a 1'' Target.

The chinese copied the wrong scope, and the wrong mounts....
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2018, 06:58 AM
Defender3 Defender3 is offline
 
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I appreciate the correction and most importantly, the education - thanks!

The museum, when it opened, had period correct weapons displayed. Some asshat, right after the museum opened, came in and took out all the Garand trigger groups, marched them up to the curators and told them they had a problem. Instead of beating him and throwing him in jail, they replaced a lot of the "open" weapons with plastic replicas and locked down others.

The historians took great pains to get things correct. They sent people to the beach at Tarawa who took castings of the wall, which they used to accurately recreate the scene in the diorama. They also littered the "beach" with period correct expended rounds.

Sorry for the thread derail, somewhat back to normal programming with one of many nice finds in the museum:

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  #14  
Old 10-26-2018, 07:43 AM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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The scopes that I can document that the Marines trialed on the M1903's for the sniper trial when they chose the Unertl.

12X Lyman Supertargetspot
Lyman 8X Junior Target spot
Weaver 330 (but they did buy some 440's too)
Lyman 5A/WRA A5


If I was trying for the vintage matches, I would really try to see if I could petition them to allow the 12X Supertargetspot. There are a lot of those floating around and usually around the $500 price.
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2018, 07:46 AM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender3 View Post

That would be a neat one to own wouldn't it?

I wonder when they got it. I know I have the document of the first M1903 they received and if I remember right it's a 4 digit.

So I would be curious how it came to be in the museum. The Marines were sort of late to the M1903 game, with only receiving their first large shipment in 1910. They did get a small shipment of NM's in 1909, but the first large purchase was in 1910.

I would love to know what that receiver might have seen.

Last edited by cplnorton; 10-26-2018 at 07:50 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-26-2018, 09:19 AM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender3 View Post
They also littered the "beach" with period correct expended rounds.

you're welcome
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  #17  
Old 10-26-2018, 09:27 AM
Jeremy2171 Jeremy2171 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cplnorton View Post

The Marine museum has a lot of rifles that have been messed with, including at least one of the Unertl rifles.

For instance, they have Smith Corona 03A3's that are drilled and tapped and made into 03A4's. Did the Marines do that, or did they build them for some display for the museum at some time?

Personally everything I have seen of the Marine Museum, you can't rely too much on what is, or isn't correct by what is there.
One of the Unertl rifles was over at WTBN and they were shooting it on a regular basis...unbeknownst to the Museum.

The SC A4s were never intended for display at anytime to my knowledge.

Lots of stuff in the museum came from Interarms back in the day and from private donations....weapons that weren't even military etc.

Its got a decent AK collection...the 75 or so H&R T48s and the ~100 USMC rebuild M1 drill rifles.. some of which are used for the displays. They had a pile of 20mm aircraft cannon...no clue why...lol
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2018, 09:55 AM
cplnorton cplnorton is offline
 
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I think these are the 3 at the museum. I think they are the ones listed in the SRS.

1499608
1526591
1526610

Which all the Unertl Snipers started as National Match rifles first. Which the Marines received the last two NM orders in 1937 and 1940, 150 rifles received each shipment. The serials above are consistent with the serials we see in both of those shipments.

The 1.499 is just a fuzz higher than we normally see in the 1937 shipment. I know I have one in the 1.498 range about a thousand lower.

The other two 1.52 are in perfect range for the 1940 shipment.
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2018, 11:37 AM
mnhusker mnhusker is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cplnorton View Post
It's a real Unertl 1 1/4'' with lyman mounts as Neil said.

The USMC Unertls were those, but they made them commercially too. Without seeing the serial and rollmark it's impossible to say. Though I do believe it to be a real scope most likely.

The Marine museum has a lot of rifles that have been messed with, including at least one of the Unertl rifles.

For instance, they have Smith Corona 03A3's that are drilled and tapped and made into 03A4's. Did the Marines do that, or did they build them for some display for the museum at some time?

Personally everything I have seen of the Marine Museum, you can't rely too much on what is, or isn't correct by what is there.
When my shooting buddies and I went to the National WWII museum in New Orleans in March of this year we saw similar things. Six of the M1 Garands on display had T105 rear sights, obviously incorrect for WWII serial numbered rifles.
I was given contact information for the curator and to make a long story short, donated six lock bar sights which have been mounted on these rifles. Hope to get back to the museum again to see them in person, but have seen pictures, they look "much better" .
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  #20  
Old 10-30-2018, 02:51 PM
Logdog Logdog is offline
 
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The USMC weapons collection had one 1903 sniper without scope. I was able to play with it a few times over the years 1971-1994. I handled it a during weapons displays for various reasons. It had the mounts, no rings, not saying that someone could have matched up a scope to the rifle. Last time I saw it was 1994. A gent that was the watch person said that he did not know of another in the collection circa 1989. I don't remember any details of stamps and such
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