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Old 11-27-2017, 07:36 PM
mrrm mrrm is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CT.
Posts: 1,774
Default Cal. .30 M1 BALL How Rare?

I have one box of CAL. .30 M1 Ball in the original Frankford Arsenal box. Box is marked:

CAL. .30 M1

IMR POWDER NO. 1185 LOT NO. 1657

Disposal of emptied cartridge cases must be made
as prescribed by A.R. 775-10

Manufactured by Frankford Arsenal

Drawing B 10985 Ammunition Lot No. 1558

Box is in good condition with one end having been opened to expose the two cartridges on that end of the box. Head stamp is FA 33.

Any collector value to this? If not I'm guessing it would be good to shoot in an M1903 or M1917. The two cartridges I checked are in excellent condition, bright and very clean.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:00 PM
togor togor is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 800

Look like the box at left? Condition matters a lot. Once the cardboard flap begins to open and rounds come out, value drops. These boxes are both fully sealed and I'd put them at $50 each. At that price, someone would buy.

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Old 11-27-2017, 09:41 PM
mrrm mrrm is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CT.
Posts: 1,774

Similar but not quite the same. If I were to put a small drop of glue on the open end flap you'd never be able to tell it was once opened. I may trade it to one of my friends for some more common HXP or LC.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:09 PM
7,62x51mm 7,62x51mm is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA Illinois
Posts: 1,455

the gas trap M1 rifle was designed around the 30M1 ball cartridge and not the M2 cartridge as many believed
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:51 PM
Lt. Thompson Lt. Thompson is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 473

Anyone ever do any comparison/performance (accuracy, grouping, etc) tests between M1 and M2 ball?
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:49 AM
Phil McGrath Phil McGrath is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 625

Originally Posted by Lt. Thompson View Post
Anyone ever do any comparison/performance (accuracy, grouping, etc) tests between M1 and M2 ball?
No but our Uncle Sam did....Hahaaahahaa M1 ammo is more accurate partly because of it weight but it exceeded many of the NG range safety envelopes. But back in the day the 03 was the service rifle so shooters took a beating on the range. There is a good section about 30.06 ammo in Crossman's "Book of the Springfield".

Last edited by Phil McGrath; 12-06-2017 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:08 AM
Tam 3 Tam 3 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 46

There was a good reason that match ammo duplicated the M1 design.


Tam 3
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:08 AM
Cosine26 Cosine26 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 80

Ammunition Comparison
I do not know of any tests the U S army performed to compare the accuracy of the M1 vs M2 Ball ammo.
The best information that I have appeared in an article entitled The .30 Caliber Cartridge in Match Competition, by B.R. Lewis which appeared in the American Rifleman for September 1967. He includes a table which shows the characteristics of all .30 caliber Nation Match Ammo from 1903 through 1966.

For many years with a few exceptions, the ordnance department conducted tests for commercial ammo and also loaded Match Ammo for the Nationals. After 1915 all NM ammo was loaded and provided by the ordnance department. In 1928, No NM ammo was loaded and standard M1 Ball was used because funding was not available. It was deemed unsatisfactory, so special NM ammo was loaded from 1919 through1927, and again from 1929 through 1930 . After 1929 selected lots of M1 Ball was issued through 1940. When the Nationals were resumed in 1954 through 1956, selected lots of the most accurate M2 Ball was issued. This proved to be unsatisfactory and NM ammo was prepared for the 1957 National and continued through the 1966 National at which time the Army withdrew support of the N. Matches.

The accuracy of M1 Ball issued varied from a mean radius at 600 yard of 2.74 to 3.81 inches. The ammo was also tested at 1000 yards but the 1000 yard stage of the NM Course was deleted for the 1954 and subsequent Matches.(Probably because the unmodified ,selected M1 rifle and M2 Ball was a lost cause at 1000 yards.- My opinion.). After the War selected lots of M2 Ball were used for the Nationals. The selected M2 Ball for the years 1954-56 had a MR of from 3.6-4.7 inches After 1956 it was felt that no remaining ammo in stock was satisfactory and match ammo was developed for the 1957 Matches.
The big advantage M1 Ball had over M2 Ball was the higher ballistic coefficient. This meant effect of the wind at longer ranges.
For a period after WWII , the USMC used M2AP for long range as it had a better BC than M2Ball but that was short in supply and reserved for future combat needs.

Last edited by Cosine26; 12-07-2017 at 01:15 AM. Reason: To Correct Spelling
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