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  #1  
Old 02-02-2015, 05:55 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Default Modern Military Q!

So when looking at the rule book for the CMP/Games matches, I zeroed in on rule 4.2.1.

http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/CMPGamesRules.pdf

4.2.1 General As-Issued Military Rifle Requirements
The following rules apply to all as-issued U. S. and foreign military rifles
unless specific exceptions are noted in these rules:
  • Commercial or replica versions of as-issued military rifles are not permitted.

Am I looking at the right section for modern military, more specifically, M1A rifles? Also, are medium-weight barrels DQ'd, though a repro of the Saco-Lowell USGI barrel?
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2015, 06:53 PM
alpha sierra alpha sierra is offline
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As-Issued means no replicas. Period.

An M1A, if it fits anywhere in the CMP Games, fits in the Modern Military Rifle Class B caterogy IF it complies with 5.2.4.

Or you could just shoot NRA Highpower

Last edited by alpha sierra; 02-02-2015 at 06:56 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2015, 07:00 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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5.2.4. may in fact be what I'm referring to. I typically shoot M1 or 1903 in CMP sanctioned matches. For local matches, they aren't stringent...asse's in seats so to speak.

I can see the heartburn with modern military at the national events now.
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2015, 09:57 PM
alpha sierra alpha sierra is offline
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I tend to have a problem with local matches that run loose rules. They think they are doing everyone a favor, when in reality they set up their regulars to fail when they venture out into other venues that take the rules seriously.

I have zero sympathy for people who get butthurt when they get called out, or worse, DQ'd, for rule violations when their excuse is that "but it's OK to do that when I shoot at X".

I've seen in happen in several shooting sports and my answer is the always the same: you should have read the rulebook.

But in the end, I don't play CMP Games, so what they do there doesn't affect me much.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2015, 11:05 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Thanks.

Good luck in your other adventures. You should try the games, good fun.

Last edited by Roadkingtrax; 02-02-2015 at 11:27 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2015, 11:47 PM
hi-revr hi-revr is offline
 
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Unless something has changed here is the text from the 2014 edition;

""""""5.2.2 General Rules for Modern Military Rifles
Semi-automatic military rifles of U. S. or foreign manufacture or commercial
rifles of the same type and caliber or commercial variations of military-type
rifles may be fired. There are two categories of Modern Military Rifles.

I don't remember which edition has the specifics on M-14/M1A but I recall it does or did say standard profile barrel with a weight limit eliminating any match barrels.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2015, 04:49 AM
alpha sierra alpha sierra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
You should try the games, good fun.
I have. The short distance of the course of fire and the mediocre accuracy of the allowed rifles did not agree with me.
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2015, 08:58 AM
NEWGUY556 NEWGUY556 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
So when looking at the rule book for the CMP/Games matches, I zeroed in on rule 4.2.1.

http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/CMPGamesRules.pdf

4.2.1 General As-Issued Military Rifle Requirements
The following rules apply to all as-issued U. S. and foreign military rifles
unless specific exceptions are noted in these rules:
  • Commercial or replica versions of as-issued military rifles are not permitted.
Am I looking at the right section for modern military, more specifically, M1A rifles? Also, are medium-weight barrels DQ'd, though a repro of the Saco-Lowell USGI barrel?
The way I am interpreting this rule is it only applies to As-issued rifles. 1903, M1 garand etc.. Not Modern Military.
If this applied to modern military then we would all have to bring real M16's or M14's.
I have shot Modern Military twice at the Western Games. The first time with an AR15 A2 Rifle which now is overweight per the rules. The second with an M4A2 clone. I probably could have got the A2 Rifle through inspection since it is less than 1 LB overweight and they dont have scales but that defeats the spirit of the games.

I am thinking the Medium Weight Barrel would not be legal and it would need to be a Standard Profile to meet the rules.
Does the guy inspecting the rifles know the difference? I don't know... If you already have it bring it and see what happens. You can always shoot out of compettion. If you are building something specifically for it go with a standard barrel, it will be accurate enough to clean the SR targets.
Really I dont think it makes much of a difference. These matches are won on your feet. I could Clean the SR on my belly with a high X count using my NM AR15 but still would need a 94+ in Offhand to win. Since that doesnt happen all the time I have something else to work on.

I am one with heartburn over the Modern Military class. If I have a rifle that meets the rules I will shoot that class if the rules change and now I dont, then I will just shoot a re-entry with one of the vintage guns. I won't go through the hassle and expense of buying/building another rifle just to shoot 1 match a year that matters.
You could always borrow my M4 if you want....
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2015, 06:28 PM
K31Schmidt K31Schmidt is offline
 
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Does the guy inspecting the rifles know the difference?

At any of the Games matches, if John Mclain inspects your rifle then, Yes he does know.

At local matches we let guys shoot what ever, but I tell them if you like this game get a legal rifle. That's when the herd is culled, after a clinic of 14 to 30 participants we have had a return of maybe 2 or 3 serious shooters and 2 to 4 casual guys.

That's how I started
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2015, 11:21 PM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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I have a M1A with a medium wt. Fulton SS barrel. I specifically asked if the medium wt. barrels would be allowed at the last eastern games. The reply was: "no M1A with a medium wt. barrel could pass the weight restriction". Having an accurate 0-20# scale at home, I later weighed the rifle with different stocks and was able to get under the weight limit with at least one unaltered military stock. My answer to the barrel question was to use my absolutely stock M1A with a Winchester barrel--282 with most of the points lost my (well...not completely) fault. I still think the M1As are best for MM since the M16 early types have the pencil barrel and don't handle sling tension well. The M4 type might be a good choice, but I will stick with the M14 types just because I like them. Good Shooting..... BTW--local club matches.... If a club sanctions the match with CMP; they are obligated to follow the CMP rules. Nothing prevents them from allowing a shooter to participate "out of competition" or "not for record". If the club does not follow the rules: I either won't shoot there or I won't turn my score in........

Last edited by ceresco; 02-10-2015 at 11:27 PM.
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