Stupid Question or is it?

[CadillacMike]

The biggest problem was the poor quality of the ammunition (the brass casings) in use at the time (1917 ramp up to WW1 deployments) . Bad just doesn't even come close enough to describe it.

[ceresco]

The fact that 1917s were used for magnums does not indicate anything about pressure. Cartridges like the .300win mag simply have large case capacity-they operate in the same pressure range as non magnum cartridges. ..........and rather early on, astute gun bugs acknowledged that other designs handled gas leakage better than the 1903s.... Good Shooting........

[Guest]

We see them as a piece of history. We also suggest you do not fire them.

[RIRED]

If one collects military weapons he or she takes a chance every time they squeeze the trigger.
I have Mosins and small ring Mausers, Mausers from around the world Arisakas, Chineese surplus and Russian surplus all made at different times and many during war years where I know the countries were only interested in getting weapons to their soldiers and probably cut all kinds of corners in production (91/30 Mosins during the early 40's).
I use all kinds of surplus ammo which again is a crap shoot on quality. Do any of us flinch to shoot these? The answer is NO! Why? Because those countries did not do studies on failures so we think all these foreign guns are safe and shoot them with questionable ammo without thinking twice.
Do I shoot low numbered 1903's? YES!
I figure if 40 or 50 or even if it's 100 rifles blew up out of 1,000,000 I'm probably safer than shooting my other milsurps.

[Ohio Don]

It's interesting how these myths stay alive, when a little thought on how the grenade launcher works will tell you that cracked heels, broken op rods, etc. just can't happen due to use of the grenade launcher.

When the launcher is mounted to the barrel, the poppet valve is opened, venting the gases (and thus the motive force) to the front of the rifle. The op rod, as stated, is impacted only slightly.

Maybe we need a Myth-Busters sticky in Ask Each Other!

Heal Annealing due to grenades - Busted!

Op Ron Cut due to grenades - Busted!

Low Number M1903s unsafe to fire - Unproven!

"Life is Good!"

Well it took me a while to get to where it was originally reported but I guess Orlando and you think that the internet was around back in the 1940s. Let's see if you recall this quoted text.

For service use a grenade discharger can be attached to the muzzle of the Garand rifle. In the early use of this device, the bolt opened with such speed that the rear end of the receiver where the motion of the bolt is arrested was often cracked.
To overcome this difficulty,the gas cylinder screw was fitted with a valve. A plunger on the grenade discharger opens the valve so that the gas action on the operating rod is reduced. In addition, the rear end of the receiver is drawn to a higher temperature in the heat treatment so as to toughen it.

Drawing is what is commonly referred to as tempering.

So your "Heal Annealing due to grenades - Busted!" is BUSTED.

[Orlando]

Don
Thats the great thing about the M7 Launcher, it would only fit in the Poppet style gas screw so what you are saying couldnt have happened
Read halfway down the page
http://www.billricca.com/myths.htm

[steelap]

Well it took me a while to get to where it was originally reported but I guess Orlando and you think that the internet was around back in the 1940s. Let's see if you recall this quoted text. Drawing is what is commonly referred to as tempering.

So your "Heal Annealing due to grenades - Busted!" is BUSTED.

I would appreciate your citing your source.

"Life is Good!"

[Ohio Don]

I would appreciate your citing your source.

"Life is Good!"

None other than Hatcher's Book Of the Garand by MG Julian S Hatcher. Pg 166 near the bottom. Look for the heading: "The Gas Cylinder". The book was first published in 1948. The first grenade launchers used on the M1 rifle were not the M7 model. The M7 did not come into use until 1943. The first ones were like those used on the M1 Carbine where they clamped around the barrel. Likely modified M1 launchers for the 1903 or M2 for the 1917s.

[steelap]

None other than Hatcher's Book Of the Garand by MG Julian S Hatcher. Pg 166 near the bottom. Look for the heading: "The Gas Cylinder". The book was first published in 1948. The first grenade launchers used on the M1 rifle were not the M7 model. The M7 did not come into use until 1943. The first ones were like those used on the M1 Carbine where they clamped around the barrel. Likely modified M1 launchers for the 1903 or M2 for the 1917s.

Thanks. I'll check it when I get home.

[Orlando]

Don
My understading before the developement of the M7 ,grenades ere launched with 1903's?

[Ohio Don]

Don
My understading before the developement of the M7 ,grenades ere launched with 1903's?

1903s and M1 launchers got to the front a long time before the M1s with the M7 launchers did. The M7 was approved in March of 1943 but didn't show up in quantity until 1944. The M1903 with the M1 launcher was in use by 1942. It was what was written about in the 6/42 TM 7-10. During the war in Europe, both the M1 and M7 were in service at the same time with the ease of use going to the M1 as it could be left on the gun. It wasn't until even later that the M7 upgraded to M7A1 which came out in July of 1945 solved that problem. After that, the M1 Garand with M7A1/A2/A3
were able to be used with regular ammo shot thru them with no grenade in place.

There was an interesting discussion in http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...?f=36&t=123073 by mainemilsurpownr

[Bill Ricca]

The M7 GL was not first used or set up in 1944. In Sept thru Dec of 1943 there were approximately 36,000 M7 GL, the early versions. By Jan of 1944 the later version was made. Both of these were made by Knapp Monarch.

Many do not know the Gas Cylinder Lock Screws that was used mostly in WWII. It did not completely close like the later ones. You can see about them here:

http://www.billricca.com/lockscrews.htm

Rock Island had the responsibility to delete these lock screws after WWII. The later lock screw, which everybody says started on the M1's in Jan of 1944, I have the contracts and they start up in March of 1944. So I do not know for sure if the contracts made up the dates, or others that claim Jan made up the dates.

The nice thing about Knapp Monarch is that it was the only company that made all of the following Grenade Launchers:

M1 for the 1903, M2 for the 1917, M7 for the M1 Rifle, and M8 for the M1 Carbine. By 1944 and 1945 many other companies stated making M7 and a few made the M8.

[Bill Ricca]

I have another page that shows the makings on those early Gas Cylinder Lock Screws.

http://www.billricca.com/glpg.htm