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  #1  
Old 01-11-2019, 02:18 PM
NaughtyMonkey NaughtyMonkey is offline
 
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Default Italian Beretta and Breda Values?

I would like to acquire one of these eventually, but can't find any values. I'm curious if they are as much as the USGI ones or cheaper since they aren't US made? Also wondering how rare they are here in the states. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2019, 04:14 PM
krdomingue krdomingue is offline
 
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They are a little harder to find in the US than Canada (Or least they use to be). I can tell you I paid in the $1,500 range each for my two a couple of years ago. Weather that was a good price or not.....
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2019, 04:56 PM
SA1942 SA1942 is offline
 
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Did the beretta have match parts? A friend of mine has one that he will be selling soon and I was going to post the same question myself. It has a lot of PB matching parts. SN on the stock doesn’t match but it’s a beretta.
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:08 PM
Orlando Orlando is offline
 
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I sold both my Danish Contract Breda and Berretta garands not long ago for around $2000 as I remember. Both were correct
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:51 PM
krdomingue krdomingue is offline
 
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The PB was all correct (as far as I can tell) with the correct numbered stock. The BMR was a build that started as a BMR receiver. It had all BMR/BMB parts except for the stock, which was Danish. Both were Danish contracts (FKF PB and FKF BMR). Not one built for the Italian army.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2019, 06:04 PM
BRMPCF50 BRMPCF50 is offline
 
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In 2007 I bought a Danish contract Beretta M1 at a live auction in rural Missouri for $700. All PB marked parts. Barrel dated 1955. Bidding on it was slow and low. One local "expert" told me I overpaid as it "wasn't a real Garand," but a "cheap Italian copy."

Beretta/Breda M1s are certainly less common in the US market. Value is, however, as in most things, in the eye of the beholder. They may be the best Garands: built by the oldest arms manufacturer in the world; under peacetime conditions; with postwar machinery and "modern" metallurgy; to the final, experience-based, specifications. Plus, the Beretta Danish M1s never endured wartime use.

A Beretta M1 would certainly round out an M1 collection. Or the Beretta/Breda variations would make good collection theme themselves.

My Danish contract Beretta M1 is almost as good a shooter as my Danish return mixmaster (Springfield receiver, Danish VAR barrel, IHC trigger group and mixed US and Italian small parts). I think the VAR barrel gives the mixmaster the slight edge...
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2019, 06:40 PM
NaughtyMonkey NaughtyMonkey is offline
 
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I had no idea they be that expensive. I am surprises. I have one of each US contractor. Would love to have an Italian one but dam.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2019, 06:46 PM
jimthompson502002 jimthompson502002 is offline
 
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It's not that simple. Most Italian Garands in the U.S. either came in illegally through Mel Bishop or during a brief lax interval when M1's weren't banned from civilian import, or the "never military" receivers brought in by Reese. Cummings brought in a very few specimens back in the sixties. They're actually very rare.

And by the way, Italian M1's were by over a decade the very last M1's ever produced.

However, those with national crests other than Denmark's are much rarer still.

All are very much "real" M1's, possibly the overall best ever produced, not because of any locational magic, but they were the very last, made with all the advantages of sophisticated measurement and production techniques 1956-80's, and barrel technology was a lot better than in the forties.

A Yemeni, Indonesian, Nigerian, or Columbian M1 made in Italy is a precious and very rare piece. All crests other than the Danish FKF are rare, indeed, and yes, the serial numbers with contracts almost always commence with "001", so there are MANY duplicate serial numbers and letter codes. How many we will likely never know.

Dollar figures?

Well, I just kicked "The Mutt" out the door at $1500, and felt I'd lowballed it. And it wasn't anything to do with "collector correct". It was, however, the most accurate service weight Garand I'd ever owned. It was a .308, of course, with 1 turn in 12" stainless Wilson barrel, free floated and very secure in its laminated stock. It was in what I call "enhanced service" configuration. Those bearing other-than-Danish military crests would go FAR higher.

My "match weight" .308's shot better still, and my lone 7x57 at the very top. Generally, and very obviously, later receivers are inherently less likely to have experienced as much fatigue and stress. Of course, in some parts of Africa, others have been at war for forty or more years, with only minor breaks. And yes, I've "match prepped" Italian rifles, too. To me, "match weight" and "competition preparation" is about the heavy barrel, not just bedding.

Bear in mind, the tops of those parameters will--YES, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF WITNESSES!!--produce MOA with best ammo, under relaxed rate of fire conditions. Several we built exceeded that standard, and there are users on here who can affirm that, in depth.

Thing is, there's a collector market and a shooter market. The receivers, while beautifully made, are not the "primary source" of the accuracy. The very late barrels ARE, and so is the bedding formula. This is why the rifles appeal to both schools. That appeal is profound, and the NATO-calibered originals are particularly so. NO, not all 7.62x51mm. M1's were shortened "Tipo 2" permutations. That fantasy flows from someone who never read the specifications. NO "Tipo 2" is anything but a rebuild, generally of modified M.A.P. receivers.

That's not "my" information, and it's not "opinion". It's straight from the mother firm.

Breda M1's are so rare that, even though I had seen one which seemed to be a prototype a very long time ago, it was not until I handled a couple some two decades ago and subsequently owned several that I was sure they'd actually been a production and issue item. They're that uncommon.

Dollar figures?

High. Very high.

There is no master compendium, by the way, of their contracts. And there were prototype oddities. If someone came up with an Italian receiver, serial numbered say "001A", with say a Brazilian National Crest, the price would be something outrageous, perhaps as high as a gas trap, maybe higher.

Truth is, we have on vague ideas what's out there.

Last edited by jimthompson502002; 01-25-2019 at 02:18 AM. Reason: adjectives
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:59 AM
Eliyahu Eliyahu is offline
 
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The 'rarest of the rare' Italian M1s are the Beretta factory guns that were imported by 'Santa Fe' back in the 1960s. These were not their (in)famous re-welds, these were factory-new Berettas and marked quite differently. I think the last one I saw on GunBroker went for close to $5,000 - not bad!
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Eli
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:03 PM
Danny Danny is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliyahu View Post
The 'rarest of the rare' Italian M1s are the Beretta factory guns that were imported by 'Santa Fe' back in the 1960s. These were not their (in)famous re-welds, these were factory-new Berettas and marked quite differently. I think the last one I saw on GunBroker went for close to $5,000 - not bad!
Picture, not by me:




Eli
What did the heel stampings look like on them?
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Looking for Rifles:
Springfield Armory 5,940,259, 5,840,184, 4,238,435 and 2,023,912.
Harrington & Richardson 5,549,399.

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Germany:
Air Show and Rammstein


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