Correct sights for CMP .22 rifles

[schutzen-jager]

blade w/o bead was standard on all production 521's -

[edlmann]

Army TM 9-1005-226-14, July 1959, shows the Lyman 525 sight on the Winchester 52, but I suspect these were replaced with Olympics whenever possible.



ETA: The Army TM doesn't say, but the rifle shown is a 52C. The Army doesn't differentiate between the 52C and 52D.

[aj98]

There are also a couple other interesting options for Redfield sights on the 513T. First is a "high" base. Redfield made a base stamped RT-HIGH that raises the Redfield 75 rear sight about a 1/4" above the height of the standard base. The comb on the 513T is pretty tall. This base helps a bit with making the 513T more of a man sized rifle. The taller base also lets you use the 513T w/75 out to +100yds.

Redfield also made a 513T base that allows you to mount an Olympic rear. Don't have the number offhand, but I have one.

Both of these are hard to find, but come up every so often on FleaBay.

Redfield part number on the RT High for a 513T is 716010

Redfield part number for standard redfield base is 715009.

Try this site for 540 adn 513 (et al) mounts:
http://www.vmasa.com/Category/843/No...and-Optics.htm

The RT HIGH appears on this page:
http://www.vmasa.com/ItemDetails/710...eiver_Base.htm

[Sturmgewehr57]

Rem 37 sights question

Great Info & Thank-you's.

I've recently gotten a Rem 37, ser# 019xx, and am not sure what sights came on this beauty as OE. I was hoping that some of you guys may know, despite this model as not being CMP or DCS offered(???). I'd like to restore it, or verify it to be correct.

It currently has a rear sight I believe to be Remington w/ nifty adjustable aperture via rotating disc & globe style ft sight w/ replaceable aperture and is marked "Redfield" (looks like short style Lyman).

Are these correct for vintage circa 1937-39? Were there other options available? Are there any sources for these parts (I've come to know Wendell @ Outback recently). Any help/insights would be greatly appreciated.

Once this vintage Target .22 Bug Bites, It's quite the journey!

Thanks.

Bruce.

[presidentg]

In the beginning the 37 was delivered with the Remington Model 37 Rangemaster sight-


This mounted on a standard Unertl scope block on the receiver. Be sure to notice the angle of the dovetail on the sight base.
This spells trouble. This sight had a rather short base to allow the operation of the safety. It sounds like your rifle has this sight. Do you have a picture?

Wittek-Vaver had the #37-RM Dial Micrometer sight. This had a cut out that permitted the operation of the safety. I would love to find one for my 37, I'm just not sure I want to see the asking price.


Later model 37s had Redfield Olympic sights front and back. The trick with the Olympic is that it's difficult to set it up so that you can use the safety.
Here's a photo of the Redfield mounting block on a 37-

This block allows the use of the Redfield Olympic, International and Palma receiver sights.
Any manner of riflescope that uses Cataract/Stevens/Unertl/POSA (did I get them all?) scope blocks will work on the 37.
Litschert, Fecker, Wollensak, Winchester (A5, B5, B3, 677, 697), Mossberg (7R, 7M4), Lyman (5A, 438, Jr. Targetspot, Super Targetspot) Neidner (!$!$!$!$!) and very early Unertls would all be comtemporary to the 37. http://unertl.alexweb.net/index.htm
New reproductions from Hi-lux Optics, the USMC Sniper 8x which is a copy of the USMC Unertl 8x and the Wm.Malcolm 3x and 6x would do very nicely.http://hi-luxoptics.com/product/rifl...x-usmc-sniper/
Yes, vintage target rifles are very addictive, so beware. Hopefully you have no wife/girlfriend or a rich, tolerant one (if rich and tolerant does she have a unwed sister?)
Have you fallen prey to the Martini Internationals?

[Sturmgewehr57]

Thanks Orest- Rem 37 is a real beauty

The more I tinker with this rifle, the more I like it. I've not shot it yet, but hope to get out of the deep freeze here & go to the range (can't wait).

It's very well made & feedback from others saying that it's way over-engineered. Well, "if it's worth doing, ... it's worth overdoing" has been ringing in my head for years now.

After speaking to a few appreciative, knowledgable old timers, they've told me that Remington built these to be their offering to compete with Winchester 52's. If Winchester sold theirs at a loss them I'm thinking Remington did as well & one guy told me they lost $37 per unit, thus "model 37".

I don't know how true this is, but they built very few in relative terms & they seem very dear to those that know them.

Other questions: 1) did they come from Rem with a handstop (as there is a short rail & seems logical)? 2) was the OE buttplate metal or white line style? This one's got a whiteline pachmeyer on it. Can I get any of this stuff from CMP?

Your info & pixs of sights were great... Thanks for the inspiration, despite it may get me into trouble with household management... OH Well... It's better to beg forgiveness & have the rifle you want, than to ask permission & not have the rifle, or pistol, or car, or motorcycle, or tool, or whatever...

Thanks again,
Bruce.

PS: After doing my 40X US model (still WIP), I've been bitten & now have this 37 & (3) 52's lined up. So far, she's gone along with me & encourages me, and even wants to go to the range when I take them...heaven(?)

Sorry, Correction- Thanks, PresidentG...

[presidentg]

Have you found the secret to removing the bolt?
Just in case...
Open the bolt and you will see a small hole next to the ejector. Hold the trigger back and insert a small screw driver or drift and press down. The bolt releases and out it comes.
I used to think the 40X was the King of the Hill of American .22 match rifles until I finally found a 37. I watched for nearly 10 years. There are more than a few out there unfortunately many have been modified into benchrest rifles. To find one in original condition is unusual.
Here's a few more photos-




When the Model 37 hit the market it caused quite a panic at Winchester. The 52B was the curret model and many shooters found the trigger "buzzy" where the 37's trigger was/is wonderful. Winchester blind tested all manner of match rifles to judge the triggers. The 37 trigger prompted Winchester to bring out the Micromotion trigger and they even offered to retrofit the 52Bs already delivered. I have a 52B and honestly the trigger is pretty darn good. The 37 is better however.
From the photos the 1937 37 featured a front barrel band and a stock very much in the style of the 52. The 1940 37 changed the stock and switched to Redfield sights.
The close up is the standard front sling swivel. I don't find any reference to a hand stop being provided.
Whether the 37 is "over engineered" I won't say. What I will say is that it's one of the finest match rifles I've used. It's delightfully accurate. In fact it's almost no fun at 50 and 100 yds. Try it at 200 yds and you'll laugh with joy!
Target .22s are my passion and I'll just say this. I have 3 go to match rifles, my Anschutz 1913 SuperMatch, my Model 37 and my BSA Martini International MK4. I have 40Xs and 52s and I love them but they don't quite compare. The Anschutz is #1 if you're crazy enough to spend that kind of money you'll love every shot.
The 37 and Martini nip right at the Anschutz's heels. This is the fun stuff!!
FYI- Remington will send you a photocopy of the 37's owner's manual if you go to the website and request one.
Also any manner of parts will be hard to find and pricey. I wouldn't
expect to find any from the CMP. The 37 was delivered with a 5 round magazine and a single shot adapter. my 37 only had the 5 rd. mag. I searched for a single shot adapter online. I didn't find one but I did find that one sold at auction for near $200!
Ain't these rifles grand!!

PS-These rifles are solid investments. To be able to own one or many is truely a blessing. If you have a sweetheart that supports you in this, well you treat her real well cause you might be the most blessed man on earth!

[Sturmgewehr57]

Question(s) for Pres. G.

IT IS AS YOU EARLIER STATED.... I got the Rem 37 & 40x & Win 52D Projects done & you warned us all about the smallbore BSA Martini-International bug.
Well, to make it short, I've been lookin'!
I know that Martini-Internationals are not CMP rifles, but target competitional shooting is, and these definitely qualify, and being as though you're partially to blame for my predicament, I've got to ask this question:
If you had to get one (or maybe two or maybe three) Martini-International Rifle(s) for accuracy and light competitional shooting, which one of the "Mk. X" versions would you get? Feel free to elaborate, as my research can always be bolstered by your experience and advisement (always appreciated).

I'd welcome any guidance the members may have on this topic, as I've found a Mk. II (very clean rifle/missing sights) that appears to have a sight base for Redfield type rear & normal scope bases for ft sight.... or is it better to get one with the OE Parker-Hale sights?
Also found a Mk. III with scope rings (missing peeps) or does this spell trouble? Sights & parts can be very difficult to come by, and these appear to be a whole new adventure. Any Advice?
You warned me, and again, it is as you said.
Thanks for the help,
Bruce.

[presidentg]

Any of the Internationals are delightful rifles. The MK3 is of particular interest as it was the only model with a free floating barrel. This was accomplished with an aluminum hanger that was sandwiched in the receiver in the same way as the barrel is mounted. Unfortunately the use of aluminum created it's own problems. Stress on the forearm from the sling tended to deform the hanger resulting in barrel contact anyway. Also since the hanger was clamped into the receiver along with the barrel, the barrel often prevented the hanger from being tight in the receiver resulting in a loose forearm. However these were very minor issues in regards to the MK3's performance. All the other Marks had the forearm screwed directly onto the barrel. If I recall correctly BSA increased the length of the receiver with the MK3 and MK4, I know for certain the MK4 has a long receiver.
Scopes are forever a problem with any Martini action as to the nature of loading the cartridge and ejecting the case. Anything other than a long eye relief scope gets in the way of operating the rifle. Original Parker-Hale sights are always desirable and will add to the price of the rifle. I've also used Redfield Olympic/International/Palmas with great success.
My MK4 is an outstanding performer, second only to my Anschutz SM, which is saying something indeed as the Anschutz is 3 years old and the MK4 is more like 60.
Get one while you can.
Now, let's talk about Anschutz...

[radom1935]

H&R Model 12 Sights

Here are the sealed sights in my CMP Box with my Model 12.

[edlmann]

Update: Olympic Rear Mount for 513T

Someone sent me this pic a while back of a Redfield Olympic mount for a 40X modified to fit on a 513T:

Redfield also made a 513T base that allows you to mount an Olympic rear. Don't have the number offhand, but I have one.

An update: Steve Earle Products is making an Olympic sight mount for the 513T:



This could be used for the small format sights, but you'd have to change the attaching screw of the sight.

[edlmann]

Later model 37s had Redfield Olympic sights front and back. The trick with the Olympic is that it's difficult to set it up so that you can use the safety.
Here's a photo of the Redfield mounting block on a 37-

This block allows the use of the Redfield Olympic, International and Palma receiver sights.

The original Redfield made mounts are scarce, and there have been issues with some of the reproductions.

I have noticed that Steve Earle Products has listed a Redfield mount for the Remington 37:



I haven't seen one of these on a 37, but given Steve's reputation for quality, I'm sure this would be the way to go.

[navyrifleman]

I fitted one of my Remington 513T rifles with a Parker Hale hooded front sight, available used from SARCO for a very reasonable price. It came with a base and set of different new inserts.

The Base has 2 holes that do not pair up with the 2 holes on the front of the Barrel, but the contour is correct. I simply used one screw to secure it.

For a rear sight, I used a high base Williams.

[navyrifleman]

Here is a link to a 2015 post about the correct sights for the Remington 513T.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread....Remington+513t

[edlmann]

Redfield also made a 513T base that allows you to mount an Olympic rear. Don't have the number offhand, but I have one.

It's R-513, a/k/a 715009.