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  #1  
Old 02-04-2013, 01:23 PM
Chesapeake Chesapeake is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Ga
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Default Couple of questions before I buy

I have read all the posts about the Manns and my father and I are thinking of getting one on Wednesday. We have a stock maker we are thinking about getting to turn us a full stock for it. I have a couple of questions though.

1. Has anyone put a Timney trigger in one and do you recommend it? We aren't going to shoot competitions, just want it accurate.

2. Ammo- If I understand this correctly from reading posts here, surplus ammo chambers fine, but there could be problems chambering reloads because the chamber is tight? If that is the case, would .308 be better? ( From my understanding the difference between 7.62 and .308 is that 7.62 has an OAL that is just a longer than .308)

3. I read that a couple of people said that the barrel isn't long enough to shoot 1000yds. It seems to me and I am no expert, but it is only .5" shorter than a M1A and 2.5 inches shorter than a M1903 and A3 is it that big of deal? COuld you just use a faster burning powder?

Thanks you
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2013, 12:16 AM
VMFn542bob VMFn542bob is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Arizona
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Default Couple of answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesapeake View Post
I have read all the posts about the Manns and my father and I are thinking of getting one on Wednesday. We have a stock maker we are thinking about getting to turn us a full stock for it. I have a couple of questions though.

1. Has anyone put a Timney trigger in one and do you recommend it? We aren't going to shoot competitions, just want it accurate.
A. I don't know anything about that trigger but if accuracy is what you want, you need to eliminate the human factor and fire it with a remote trigger pull. The MANN has been built for the ultimate accuracy, the rest is up to the shooter.

2. Ammo- If I understand this correctly from reading posts here, surplus ammo chambers fine, but there could be problems chambering reloads because the chamber is tight? If that is the case, would .308 be better? ( From my understanding the difference between 7.62 and .308 is that 7.62 has an OAL that is just a longer than .308)
A. The 7.62 MANN rifle is a test platform for 7.62 NATO ammunition. Any other ammo will not likely chamber except hand loads that were full length sized with a small base die.

3. I read that a couple of people said that the barrel isn't long enough to shoot 1000yds. It seems to me and I am no expert, but it is only .5" shorter than a M1A and 2.5 inches shorter than a M1903 and A3 is it that big of deal? COuld you just use a faster burning powder?
A. A longer barrel does not mean more range but can permit an increase in velocity. Elevation means more range. Read the Secrets of the Houghston Warehouse. Their conclusion was, that you will achieve the ultimate accuracy in a 30 caliber rifle with a barrel length equal to the MANN's. A longer barrel can give you more range but at the expense of accuracy. If you think about it, once the bullet is on it's way, the point of impact has been predetermined, influenced only by the environment.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html
Good luck. I know you will value having a MANN rifle.

Thanks you
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:54 AM
wesvb wesvb is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Friendswood, Texas
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I doubt you will need a SB die. The Mann chamber was cut to accept 7.62 Nato spec ammo.
I have a Timney in mine. Works fine. Set at <1lb. Do not buy the Timney with the safety. It will not fit without altering the receiver.
You will give up quite a bit of precision at 1,000yds with the short barrel. Notice i said precision and not accuracy. The muzzle velocity is quite a bit lower so the bullet is in flight for a much longer time(relatively) and outside factors will have a bigger affect.
Find a smith who WILL NOT anneal the receiver to drill and tap. You may have to buy them for him but purchase two carbide single flute bits. Purchase 3 or 4 3-flute taps from Brownels. They are listed as premium for hard metals. Do not use carbide taps. They break easily and are very hard to get out if they do break. Use a lot of high sulfur cutting oil. (A GOOD smith should know all of this anyway)
Don't touch the barrel contour!
The 03A3 action doesn't lend itself to bedding very well. Bed only the rear tang and the recoil lug. Do put one single pad of bedding in the stock about 3-4" in front of the receiver ring to support the barrel and take some of the stress away from the receiver. That 11lb barrel hanging on the light, flexible Springfield receiver is not a good thing.

Last edited by wesvb; 02-10-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-11-2013, 07:51 AM
Chesapeake Chesapeake is online now
 
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I picked up a Timney featherweight trigger for it over the weekend. I have it installed and adjusted to 1.5 lbs. I took it to my smith on saturday for him to drill and tap it. Luckily he has done a good many 03/A3 receivers and already has the bits. He is backlogged for 4-6 weeks, but that is fine as I am still trying to find a stock with enough meat for me to inlet for the collar. As far as bedding, he told me that when I get the stock to take out a little extra and that he would fully steel bed the barrel. His reasoning for not wanting to float the barrel is because of the weight. Which is the same thing dad I were thinking. So far so good, I am at a stand still for the moment, witht the exception of finding a walnut stock.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:20 AM
wesvb wesvb is offline
 
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Not sure about bedding the entire length of the barrel in a wooden stock. That could be an exercise in frustration. No matter how well one seals the wood it is still going to move with humidity changes.
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:56 AM
Chesapeake Chesapeake is online now
 
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I know the wood will swell with the humidity, it is more about supporting the weight of the barrel. I just can't bring myself to put the rifle in a fiberglass stock. I love the look and feel of wood. We are not going to shoot competitions with it, it is just to have fun with. The club we belong to has fun shoot from spring till fall. We will shoot it there but that is it. I also have a 200yd range at the house.
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  #7  
Old 02-11-2013, 02:15 PM
BubbaTheKid BubbaTheKid is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 497
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FWIW, I am still designing, in my mind, how I will do my Mann Rifle. I am about 90% decided to remove the collar by plunge cutting it off in a lathe leaving a small radius section to sure things up at the barrel to receiver interface.

I have a couple of USGI stocks which have been sportsterized to an extend that "we" would consider criminal today. I can send you one for cost of shipping if you like.

I pickedupa "Scant" stock off DuPage a while back for $50 bucks which is too nice tobutcher but not nice neough to use on a restoration; if that makes any sense.

My current thougths, and I have done ZERO measuring, and am basing this entriely off supposition, I have a Mauser K98 stock of Turkish origin which I am thinking of using. I could be sooo wrong but I believe the receivers, in terms of how they meet the stock, are virtually identical. The advantage here, if true, is the K98 stock does not have lightening channels cut in the barrel channel leaving more wood for use out front.

Apologies for any thread high jacking. Food for thought for the masses I suppose.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:18 PM
BubbaTheKid BubbaTheKid is offline
 
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Location: IL
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I also intend to use this scope mount which would involve a little modification to the stock at the receiver. No need to have it drilled and tapped, unless of course, you feel like it; in which case have at it Duder.

http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2013, 02:43 PM
Chesapeake Chesapeake is online now
 
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No apologizes here. We are all learning. I appreciate your offer of the stock, but I don't think there is enough meat in the stock for me to inlet the collar. Are you going to turn the barrel down as well?
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2013, 05:47 PM
BubbaTheKid BubbaTheKid is offline
 
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Location: IL
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I have no intention of refinishing or removing the steps in the barrel. Apparently, before my time with CMP, there was an old server with tons of info from alot of builds guys did in the past. The one bit of info you can find here that was brought forward involves a guy removing the steps, cutting a receiver cone, adding a muzzle break, tapping the receiver etc, etc. Seems really cool, apparently shoots very well too, but it also allegedly took away accuracy as the barrel was shortened to something shorter than Dr. Mann discovered and the steps in the barrel are there to deal with harmonics. I agrea with "Bob" who suggested reading "Secrets of the Houston Warehouse". The article ties it together nicely. Matter of fact I believe Bob owns that rifle still. He'll chime in I am sure.

I go back and forth on the sleeve issue. What's the point in keeping it? Is it going to be a major selling point some day? CMP allegedly has a couple thousand of these things. Am I really destroying history? No one has a picture of the Mount the sleeve goes into. Or details as to how it was used precisley. If they did would I be testing NATO rounds in my basement at some sort of concrete monolithe I fabricated next to the washer & dryer? Would my wife ever sex me up again if I did and really if I was "that guy" would I be into her sexing me up anyway?

Right now I am at chucking it up in the lathe and revising the collar to be something that might aide in bedding, with a radius by the receiver, maybe a little polishing and some cold blue. Fit it into a Military type stock. Maybe live up to my Bubba name and scab a Model of 1917 Butt plate onto the Turkisk K98 stock just so I can hide a cigar in there which I would pull out on the firing line much to the amusement of my friends.

I can't bring myself to tap a 1903a3 receiver. I have a sportsterized 1903a3 rifle I could swap receivers and remove the collar. But then it'd need to be re-headspaced. Right now it is "perfect". If I did that I'd want a spacer to fill the area the collar vacated. The re-headspace it. I could use the unmolestered collar as a paper weight.

As you can see I'm on the edge...

On a personal note, I feel this project with your Dad is a fantastic idea. I lost my Dad to cancer over the summer. He was an avid shootist and totally into the mann project rifle. We discussed it often tho I do not know what he would do with the collar.
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