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  #21  
Old 08-29-2012, 05:58 AM
MajWatz MajWatz is offline
 
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Ray, I never stated in this forum that I was speaking of drill rifles. I don't understand your quoting me with drill indicators. I was merely stating what the prick mark in the ordnance bomb meant on a barrel. I have since found that after 1943, there is a cloud as to how and/or when a prick punch was applied to a barrel.
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  #22  
Old 08-29-2012, 08:34 AM
chuckindenver chuckindenver is offline
 
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i have had, and observed barrels made well before 1943 that were new, short chambered with a punch mark..
that punch mark has nothing to do with being proof fired.
i would however agree that is a visable proof mark.
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  #23  
Old 08-29-2012, 08:45 AM
Bob S Bob S is offline
 
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Default More "stuff"

Part of Figure 9 of Colvin and Viall. In the upper left, the dimensions of the proof chamber are shown. In the same view, the profile of the "finish chamber" is shown in phantom linetype, but you probably need a magnifying glass to see it (at my age, I need a magnifying glass to read the structural details on an H-size drawing for an aircraft carrier!). It also shows a barrel extension that is used to fit the barrel to the universal receiver for proof firing. Note also that the barrel has not even been rifled yet. It's still in the .295 ream stage. I think Colvin and Viall represents the production processes as of 1914.



Next is part of a Springfield Armory process description that is reprinted in Brophy. It tells us that the pressure components (barrel, receiver and bolt) were required to be proved at the component level by firing with high pressure test cartridges, and also tell us most emphatically what the prick punch on the barrel meant at that time. Brophy doesn't tell us the date of this document, but since it includes function and accuracy firing with M1 ball ammunition, that puts at post-1925.



Last is part of a process instruction ("route sheet") for the barrel, dated May 1942, also from Brophy. It notes that the barrel is proof-fired, cleaned and magnifluxed. If passed, the barrel is stamped with an acceptance mark, but it doesn't tell us what that mark is.



So we're still confused. None of this tells us why we are finding spare barrels with the punch mark. Is it possible that the meaning of the punch mark changed changed from 1925 to 1942? Or was Remington just "confused" when they marked their spare barrels? Or was Smith-Corona (High Standard) confused? I have three S-C rifles with their original barrels, and those barrels don't have the punch mark. Were prick punches in short supply at S-C? Or was marking the barrel after the rifle assembly was proved not a contractual requirement for S-C?

A little OT, but to clarify: "VP" on a Winchester rifle does not mean "visual proof". This from one of George Madis' Winchester Newsletters:

"Winchester used the mark "vp" to show the gun had been "viewed-proofed"; this meant the gun had been visually inspected as well as gauged and had been proof fired."

http://www.georgemadis.com/987/NL2-1.html

I'm still confused .........

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Last edited by Bob S; 08-29-2012 at 08:52 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:11 PM
ernie ernie is offline
 
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Maj
i have new in the wrap that shows the prick mark in the Ordnance bomb marking fresh out of the original and marked Remington wrapping. Obviously not done after fitting to an action (prick mark).
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  #25  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:21 PM
ramit ramit is offline
 
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the barrel says "new", but why the heck does it look like it was re-crowned ?
(4th pix)
or is it just my eyes?

thought one should still see park on the crown , no?
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  #26  
Old 08-29-2012, 08:28 PM
dcat dcat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramit View Post
the barrel says "new", but why the heck does it look like it was re-crowned ?
(4th pix)
or is it just my eyes?

thought one should still see park on the crown , no?
New barrels were plugged and sealed when Parkerized. The bore and barrel underneath the seal remained in the white.
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  #27  
Old 08-29-2012, 08:48 PM
chuckindenver chuckindenver is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramit View Post
the barrel says "new", but why the heck does it look like it was re-crowned ?
(4th pix)
or is it just my eyes?

thought one should still see park on the crown , no?
said barrel was reparked, and is not likely new, bet they used silocone to seal the muzzle.
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  #28  
Old 08-30-2012, 07:46 AM
ramit ramit is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckindenver View Post
said barrel was reparked, and is not likely new, bet they used silocone to seal the muzzle.
that makes sense.. haven't seen any as issued collectable 03, 03a3, garands, carbines that had muzzles / crowns looking like that.

the few NIW spares I've seen, I didn't remember seeing that either.. but I've not seen many.
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