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Old 06-18-2017, 06:13 AM
milprileb milprileb is online now
 
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Question CMP and rifle slings

Why is the USMC issue sling, the Blue Force mfg model not authorized for competition use ?

Can we have a little progress here and simply state issue military slings are authorized? Slings have changed in the military since WWI and WWII...why are we stuck in the past ?
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:17 AM
Alexfiggy Alexfiggy is offline
 
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I have a few of those slings . Now I left the Corps almost 22 years ago, how would you set up that blue force sling for compition use? Or do you just use it as a hasty sling?
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:21 AM
missilegeek missilegeek is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
Why is the USMC issue sling, the Blue Force mfg model not authorized for competition use ?

Can we have a little progress here and simply state issue military slings are authorized? Slings have changed in the military since WWI and WWII...why are we stuck in the past ?
Going to a glorified carrying strap from a competition-capable sling is progress?

Next up: bipods.
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Last edited by missilegeek; 06-20-2017 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:59 PM
Good Ol' Boy Good Ol' Boy is offline
 
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The USMC does teach using the Blue Force sling as the rifle sling during known distance shooting. The Gunner who taught us was convinced that it was as good or better than a web sling.

I disagree. However, we had to use them. You just use them as a hasty sling. They wouldn't stay very tight, I struggled to shoot well with them being used to web slings.

However, as a sling for carrying and moving and shooting, they are absolutely outstanding.

But I don't know why anyone would want to use them for CMP events.
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Old 06-24-2017, 03:59 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Gentlemen, I have tried the Blue Force Vickers sling and it is not the best sling for competition use but it is a current military sling with an NSN and thus should be allowed. I feel that if the forward loop was a little longer, it would be much better and could be used pretty much like an M1907 sling. I have been meaning to experiment with this sling to see if there is some better ways to configure the sling given its current length but to be honest that isn't very high on my priority list. As Good Ol' Boy mentioned, as a real world sling, it is excellent. Missilegeek, it is far more than a carry strap. Rick
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:43 PM
milprileb milprileb is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missilegeek View Post
Going to a glorified carrying strap from a competition-capable sling is progress? Next up: bipods.
Nope...progress is moving to equipment actually approved by military for service rifles , of which the sling in question is a issue item. If you had read the thread, this sling does not give anyone a leg up on shooting but you slam dunked it because you are an old stick in the mud.

Sure enough a Creedmore shooting jacket and a WWI leather sling is not service rifle gear but don't let what the military uses get in the way of obtuse thinking ...we can't have service rifle mean service rifle .

Using your rationale Geek, optics should be banned from Service Rifle.

I submit, if we went back to Coastal Artillery, you'd be first draft choice.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:55 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Allowed items are set by the (NRA and CMP) rules committees, not the presence of an NSN.
"Service Rifle" is a shooting class, not an absolute. "Service Rifles" are not common issue anymore, DMRs, Carbine, CQB platforms and other specialized weapons are; and most have related competition followings.
This sling is not approved for use ONLY because no one has petitioned the rule committee to review it. If you want to use it, do that; don't expect "someone else" to do so.
So far I have not heard anyone say why it should be allowed if it's not better than what is allowed, so my interest is not there, but if someone does want it, do the work.

JH
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Old 06-24-2017, 03:06 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post
"Service Rifles" are not common issue anymore, DMRs, Carbine, CQB platforms and other specialized weapons are; and most have related competition followings.
Well, I disagree. Historically, the standard service rifle is defined as the standard infantry weapon. It is now the M4A1 carbine. Organizations such as the NRA and CMP may specify what is also acceptable within their respective service rifle classifications but that still doesn't change what the current standard infantry weapon is. Long after the M1 rifle was replaced as the standard service rifle, it was still allowed in competition. There are a number of reasons for that situation but it was in sharp contrast to what had transpired for decades before.
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:30 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
Well, I disagree. Historically, the standard service rifle is defined as the standard infantry weapon. It is now the M4A1 carbine. Organizations such as the NRA and CMP may specify what is also acceptable within their respective service rifle classifications but that still doesn't change what the current standard infantry weapon is. Long after the M1 rifle was replaced as the standard service rifle, it was still allowed in competition. There are a number of reasons for that situation but it was in sharp contrast to what had transpired for decades before.
Much merit to your definition. But I discussed "service rifle" as related to competition. "The standard service rifle" as used by some military force is not that. Pretty sure the military ones have a different selector switch, and that won't be approved! And any with carry handles have very different sights (as in not match sights and not pinned).

Doesn't change the underlying fact: If someone wants a new rule, petition the rule committee. I don't think new rules are initiated by these committees, I think they review requests and, over time, evolve the sport. Optics became standard many years ago in many services, but CMP added them what, 3 years ago? I bet they had requests of some type for years.
JH
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:24 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZvenoMan View Post
Much merit to your definition. But I discussed "service rifle" as related to competition. "The standard service rifle" as used by some military force is not that. Pretty sure the military ones have a different selector switch, and that won't be approved! And any with carry handles have very different sights (as in not match sights and not pinned).
JH
Yep, I recognize the difference between a current competition service rifle and a current military service rifle. Some differences are inevitable but it is truly unfortunate that there currently is such a divergence. The magnitude of the difference was the result of many incremental changes that occurred over decades and it is unlikely that things will change any time soon but still it wouldn't be a bad thing.

Personally, I especially believe that any current issue military sling should be allowed in the Modern Military Rifle Match but that match also has limitations which allow only the M1907 and M1 slings. As an aside, recently USMC units have been directed to no longer issue the M1 sling and they must employ either the three point sling or the Vickers combat sling - the vast majority reportedly favoring the Vickers sling.

Last edited by rickgman; 06-24-2017 at 08:35 PM.
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