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  #11  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:43 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Originally Posted by missilegeek View Post
Going to a glorified carrying strap from a competition-capable sling is progress?

Next up: bipods.
Nothing is sacred, not even marskmanship.
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2017, 10:14 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
Nope...progress is moving to equipment actually approved by military for service rifles , of which the sling in question is a issue item. If you had read the thread, this sling does not give anyone a leg up on shooting but you slam dunked it because you are an old stick in the mud.

Sure enough a Creedmore shooting jacket and a WWI leather sling is not service rifle gear but don't let what the military uses get in the way of obtuse thinking ...we can't have service rifle mean service rifle .

Using your rationale Geek, optics should be banned from Service Rifle.

I submit, if we went back to Coastal Artillery, you'd be first draft choice.

Sir:

First of all................... relax. We're talking about a sling here. Relax.
Second of all......... as has been pointed out, the fact that this or that has a NSN means nothing to whether it is approved for CMP SR competitions.
Thirdly............. If you wish to petition the rules committee about the question of slings........... go ahead.......... No one is stopping you.

Me personally, I've tried one and it works well for its intended purpose. But I can't (yet?) see how it would be better in SR than the slings already approved.

But then back in the day, people were convinced that AR's couldn't shoot.....................

Write your letter...............

(PS... I think the M1907 sling is still issued to snipers and the SDM folks....... and so has a NSN still........... but I could be wrong).
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2017, 08:23 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Sir:

First of all................... relax. We're talking about a sling here. Relax.
Second of all......... as has been pointed out, the fact that this or that has a NSN means nothing to whether it is approved for CMP SR competitions.
Thirdly............. If you wish to petition the rules committee about the question of slings........... go ahead.......... No one is stopping you.

Me personally, I've tried one and it works well for its intended purpose. But I can't (yet?) see how it would be better in SR than the slings already approved.

But then back in the day, people were convinced that AR's couldn't shoot.....................

Write your letter...............

(PS... I think the M1907 sling is still issued to snipers and the SDM folks....... and so has a NSN still........... but I could be wrong).
If I may speak for the original poster, I believe he is stating that the entire issue could be put to rest by simply stating that any military issue sling should be allowed. Then there would be no need to petition the Rules Committee to include an individual sling. That's the simple answer.
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2017, 09:43 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Yes............ and the way a rule, any rule gets changed is to write them a letter and get the rule changed.
If he, you, any body want the rule to say.......... "any sling with a NSN shall be legal for ................" or ".......that any military issue sling should be allowed......." then write them a letter and ask them to change the rule.
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Last edited by Gewehr43; 06-25-2017 at 09:46 AM.
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  #15  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:31 AM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Yes............ and the way a rule, any rule gets changed is to write them a letter and get the rule changed.
If he, you, any body want the rule to say.......... "any sling with a NSN shall be legal for ................" or ".......that any military issue sling should be allowed......." then write them a letter and ask them to change the rule.
Yep, that's fair enough. The next meeting of the Rules Committee is in September and I'd bet that it will be presented in one form or another. However, this thread is under the title "Ask the CMP" and if that is how they want to handle the issue, that's fine. However, they might already have discussed this issue and that would be nice to know. Of course, everyone but the CMP has responded.
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  #16  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:23 AM
missilegeek missilegeek is offline
 
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Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
Nope...progress is moving to equipment actually approved by military for service rifles , of which the sling in question is a issue item.
Even in the days of the Army DCM, the mere existence of a FSN or NSN did not make that item authorized for competition use. Now, even less so, since items like the UBR stock and March SR optic aren't issue at all. The nylon M16 sling has been issued for decades. No one has wanted it authorized because it wouldn't work for this. Neither would your USMC sling.

Perhaps you should look into combat EICs. This is a civilian-dominated sport run by a private company. As has been pointed out here, the "service" category is only historical. Post-2016 the "service rifle" looks less like something you'd find in an arms room than ever before.

Quote:
If you had read the thread, this sling does not give anyone a leg up on shooting but you slam dunked it because you are an old stick in the mud.
Then request it. You will likely be the only one asking for it, so you probably won't get it.

Quote:
Sure enough a Creedmore shooting jacket and a WWI leather sling is not service rifle gear but don't let what the military uses get in the way of obtuse thinking ...we can't have service rifle mean service rifle .
It's "Creedmoor" and, again, just because the military uses something has NEVER meant it was allowed for this sport.

Quote:
Using your rationale Geek, optics should be banned from Service Rifle.
I'd be very happy if they were. I'd have "my" sport that I've invested well over a decade, massive vacation time, and significant quantities of money in back. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen now that Pandora's box is open and irons have been effectively killed by CMP and NRA in the United States.

Traditional marksmanship is now a principally European thing. Sad.
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Last edited by missilegeek; 06-25-2017 at 12:51 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:24 AM
missilegeek missilegeek is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax View Post
Nothing is sacred, not even marskmanship.
Everything eventually devolves to F-Class.
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:19 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
Yep, that's fair enough. The next meeting of the Rules Committee is in September and I'd bet that it will be presented in one form or another. However, this thread is under the title "Ask the CMP" and if that is how they want to handle the issue, that's fine. However, they might already have discussed this issue and that would be nice to know. Of course, everyone but the CMP has responded.
Yeah....... sure if the committee wants to look at the slings (or whatever is on their schedule) they will.
But you've been on this forum long enough and it sounds as though you are involved enough to know the following:

-The "Ask the CMP" is not about getting any sort of direct answer from or a direct line to "the powers that be."

-Posting here is not a required prerequisite to then be able to write the rules committee.

-To my knowledge, the committee has not ever posted notes or something of their meetings. So the common man has never been aware of their discussions.

-This is really an open forum like any other. To any question, you'll get yes, no, maybe answers. There is no point at all in getting personally involved in this, so the OP doesn't need to get upset over a no answer he got.

PS......... when I've written the committee (twice) I got a specific clarification (answer) on one question and one generic "your comments have been forwarded to the committee for consideration, Thank you" type answer.


Or do you know something about the committee that us commoners don't know...................?
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Last edited by Gewehr43; 06-25-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:57 PM
Roadkingtrax Roadkingtrax is offline
 
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Originally Posted by missilegeek View Post
Everything eventually devolves to F-Class.
That's amusing, because just a couple weeks ago a few of the best prone shooters in our state were lamenting on the lack of this or that in F-Class. The run what ya brung model isn't what some think its cracked up to be. The impression I was left with was one of disappointment in what F-Class had become.

I, like presumably you, like a set number of rules in which to abide to bring about some measure of a level plain of competition. That's not a point directed at irons vs optics either. A sling is a sling, since the 1800's we've pretty much figured out that a triangular support with a sling is the best way to shoot. Even the rules in place that help a shooter are being challenged? I don't get it.
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  #20  
Old 06-25-2017, 02:20 PM
ZvenoMan ZvenoMan is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickgman View Post
The next meeting of the Rules Committee is in September and I'd bet that it will be presented in one form or another. However, this thread is under the title "Ask the CMP" and if that is how they want to handle the issue, that's fine. However, they might already have discussed this issue and that would be nice to know. Of course, everyone but the CMP has responded.
The only way they will (should?) address it is if "someone" (you know, that guy!) presents it.
CMP has responded in the past (on this subforum, and probably others) by stating if you have a suggestion/criticism, to submit a request to the rules committee.
CMP has responded in the past (on this subforum, and probably others) that they do not answer, and will not answer every thread, and encourage others in the community to answer, especially recurring items.

Why the hate among many on this thread for the 1907 and M1 Web slings? Or is it simply the unwillingness to follow a rule? They work, and most believe they are the best for this competition (as in military related and not a custom olympic-type sling)?
I believe neither is common issue in the US (other than the 1907 as mentioned above, in some situations). And we should all remember that in general, marksmanship as taught to soldiers and marines today is far different from the past (Does the Army even shoot at paper targets / bullseye in basic?). Do they teach shooting with a sling, and if not, when was the last time it was standard?

Bottom line, service rifle competition rules are published and free, and the process to petition change is always open. That process hasn't changed since ________?
It took years (and much controversy) to allow optics. OP's point that newer (tactical? Is that the genre?) slings have a place is valid, so "someone" should initiate the change. Or is it easier to just complain that "someone" hasn't and blame CMP?
Me-once I learned that a sling is a shooting aid and not a carrying strap I am sold on the 1907/M1 Web concept, so I'm not that someone!

Respectfully;
JH
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