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  #11  
Old 09-29-2018, 09:04 PM
OKC_Jim OKC_Jim is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimthompson502002 View Post
Incidentally, Beretta produced and delivered the rifles LONG after U.S. sources had sent off their last specimens.
Hey Jim, any idea of the timeframe of the last garands to be made in Italy (Beretta or Breda)?

Thanks,

Jim
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2018, 11:03 PM
jimthompson502002 jimthompson502002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKC_Jim View Post
Hey Jim, any idea of the timeframe of the last garands to be made in Italy (Beretta or Breda)?

Thanks,

Jim
Yes, indeed, and I got it direct from Jarno Antonelli at Beretta. Turns out, even much of the old Italian data was not correct. They started earlier than was once generally accepted, with both parts and complete rifles, and finished WAY later with production. The earlier information I had from his predecessors and from a then-active officer in Italian Ordnance proved to be 100% accurate except for the production time span, which was LONGER than anyone else's.

In fact, that thing about, "When was the last M1 made?", and, "When was the last M1 delivered?" has always been restricted to U.S. versions, but there ARE very different and more correct answers.

Last military deliveries, though, were way later than the last receiver production.

It'll all be detailed in THE ESSENTIAL M1 GARAND.

Last edited by jimthompson502002; 09-30-2018 at 10:40 PM. Reason: data
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2018, 11:54 PM
BRMPCF50 BRMPCF50 is offline
 
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I have a book in Italian titled “il Garand in Italia 1951-1996.” (Not that I read or speak Italian, but it has some great pictures, diagrams and charts.)

My sense, from trying to decipher Italian, is that Beretta was contracted to repair US small arms shortly after WWII. (And as stated earlier by Jim Thompson.) Initially parts were sourced from the US. Beretta actually started to manufacture “new” parts in 1951. US Springfield Armory drawing numbers will be on most parts. New Beretta (and later Breda) marked receivers were manufactured beginning in 1955.
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2018, 05:44 AM
superdave269 superdave269 is offline
 
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I would love to find a copy of that book. It would go great with mt PB and BMB garand. Remember all those 1955 B Sid marked Italian barrels years ago? I used one for my first build. This thread brought some good memories.
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2018, 11:56 AM
BRMPCF50 BRMPCF50 is offline
 
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Italian Garand book...
Whew! The price has increased since I bought my copy. Check Amazon.com (one left) or "Google" the title. https://www.amazon.com/garand-Italia...40_&dpSrc=srch

Have to admit I bought the book a while ago for the same reason as superdave269, namely to accompany my two Danes: a Danish contract Beretta M1 and a SA receiver/VAR barrel/mixed SA-PB-BMB parts.

[I picked up the Danish contract Beretta M1 at a rural MO gun auction a few years ago. Got it cheap. The local "experts" loudly expressed their opinions that it wasn't a "real" M1]
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  #16  
Old 10-01-2018, 12:49 PM
OKC_Jim OKC_Jim is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRMPCF50 View Post
The local "experts" loudly expressed their opinions that it wasn't a "real" M1]
Stopped into a gunshop on the north side of Ft. Worth. Asked the guy behind the counter if he had any Italian garands. At first he told me Italy didn't make garands. Then he told me they were clones. Then he told me he had read military reports about their lack of reliability.

So at the beginning of the conversation he didn't know Italy made garands but by the end he had read military reports about their reliability.
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  #17  
Old 10-01-2018, 02:34 PM
Roper Roper is offline
 
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My first M1 was the one in a lifetime DCM back when the army handled it. It is a Letterkenny rebuild that came from the Army with a Beretta sight adjustment knob.
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  #18  
Old 10-01-2018, 04:58 PM
jimthompson502002 jimthompson502002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKC_Jim View Post
Stopped into a gunshop on the north side of Ft. Worth. Asked the guy behind the counter if he had any Italian garands. At first he told me Italy didn't make garands. Then he told me they were clones. Then he told me he had read military reports about their lack of reliability.

So at the beginning of the conversation he didn't know Italy made garands but by the end he had read military reports about their reliability.
Not surprising. I've had folks assure me, especially at Gun Shows, that there were "no Italian M1's", ever. I've also been told their "stuff" was "no good".

One fellow in Phoenix, in particular, handed my MY OWN BOOK and said, "Here, read this! There is no such thing!"

I think him for enlightening me.

I didn't turn to the salient photos.

Why embarrass someone whose conduct and overall status are "iffy" at best?
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:50 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: somewhere , PA
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I'll try to find it in Canfield's big Garand book , but does anyone know if any US Garand tooling was sent to Beretta or Breda.
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  #20  
Old 10-01-2018, 10:43 PM
BRMPCF50 BRMPCF50 is offline
 
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As I recall from reading various sources, the Winchester tooling was sent to Beretta, but it was generally unusable. Apparently it was well used and had been improperly stored after Winchester ceased production.

Remember that Beretta has been in the arms business since the mid-1500s. They probably had the experience and talent to make new tooling. Especially with official help from the US sources: drawings, jigs, gauges, etc.
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