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  #1  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:43 AM
.303Shooter .303Shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 52
Default Vintage sniper with an M1D

So next year at perry I'm wanting to shoot the vintage sniper match for the first time with my dad. I have an M1D I got from CMP that has a repro scope, mount, cheek pad, and flash hider on it.

I haven't shot the rifle much and after reading the rules today I was surprised to learn its run at 300 and 600 yards (I thought it was 200 for some reason).

My reading seems to confirm the people coming out on top are using the 8x scopes and 1903 pattern rifles or something similar. I have no intention on being worried about my score, I'm more concerned that I won't be able to hit anything at 600.

I don't have any local place that goes that far, 200 is about the max.

Does anyone use the M1Ds and Cs? How do they hold up at 600? I know I windage will be an issue with the offset scope. What's the best way to handle this?

Basically looking for any tips or info from people that have run M1 snipers at the event. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2017, 01:05 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 897
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I shot an M1D in the Vintage Sniper Rifle Match once. Other times I've used an M1903A4. I shot reasonably well with the M1D and will hopefully use it again. There are no issues shooting at 600 yds with an M1D. Remember, back in the day many folks shot matches out to 600 yds with M1's. The M84 scope isn't perfect for this type of shooting but it will do OK. It is necessary to use match grade ammo if you want to post a decent score. The scope offset isn't the big deal some make it out to be. The offset is responsible for less than the minimum adjustability (1 MOA) of the M84 scope when going from 300 yds to 600 yds.
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2017, 01:14 PM
.303Shooter .303Shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 52
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Thanks for the info. Did you have any issues running out of adjustment? I've never taken mine past 100 yards sadly. I need to go zero it again.

Would zeroing at 100 be appropriate? I can't remember if you can re center the turrets on the M84.
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2017, 05:40 PM
lethe lethe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Everett, Wa
Posts: 93
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I would love to shoot a vintage sniper match with my m1d!
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:54 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .303Shooter View Post
Thanks for the info. Did you have any issues running out of adjustment? I've never taken mine past 100 yards sadly. I need to go zero it again.

Would zeroing at 100 be appropriate? I can't remember if you can re center the turrets on the M84.
I had no issues running out of adjustment. I would try to zero at a little longer distance than 100 yds and remember that you will need a ballistic table with the proper "come up's" for your ammo. You can reset the windage and elevation knobs by loosening the center nut and lifting the knob upward. It helps to have a tool especially made for that purpose. A buddy made a couple of custom tools out of pre-heat treated 4140 chrome moly steel - they works real nice but you can get by with a modified small blade screw driver. There needs to be a slot in the middle of the blade to clear the adjustment shaft.
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2017, 03:12 PM
.303Shooter .303Shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 52
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Ok I didn't know the turrets could do that. I think I have a tool that would work for that.

What would you say is the best way to get the ballistic table? I have an iPhone app that works ok. But it didn't help me much at perry this year with my AR. I'll probably end up shooting the Hornady garand ammo if that helps.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2017, 03:34 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .303Shooter View Post
What would you say is the best way to get the ballistic table? I have an iPhone app that works ok. But it didn't help me much at perry this year with my AR. I'll probably end up shooting the Hornady garand ammo if that helps.
Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will forward a copy to you.
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2017, 05:08 PM
mnhusker mnhusker is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,236
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I shot the first Vintage Sniper with my M1C.

First it would be best to zero at 300 yards, that way you are good to go for the first stage of the match.

Then you can do the come ups for the ballistics of your ammo based on MOA bullet drop to 600 yards, translating that to clicks on your scope. Thats what i do/did. You get sighters at the match at each yardage to confirm or if you have a local 600 yard range you can confirm then.

I "shot" and EIC match with my sniper just to get the 300 and 600 yard confirmations. Only a $20 entry fee so cheap to get what I needed and use their range.

Now, I changed to the 8X Unertl scope on a 1903 because I am 64 and the 2.2X M82 and M84 just did not give me enough to see the target at 600. Wasn't bad at 300. But with the 8X at 300 I can see the X ring and at 600 I can tell (sort of ) where the center of the target is so scores are better.

With the 2.2X I might as well have used the irons like an AR in service rifle. This is reflected in competition where 85%+ of people us 4-8X scoped rifles and the rest using M1.

In fact this has led to CMP making a special "class" for the M1D/C shooters with lower scores too I think.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2017, 05:53 PM
NMC_EXP NMC_EXP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 228
Default Sight in target

Back when you could go to the Erie Ordance Depot at Camp Perry, and check out a NM rifle,they handed you what was called a "thermometer" sighting in target. It is to be fired at 50 yards and has a round bull at the bottom scaled down from 600 to 50 yards.

The vertical line above the bull has hash marks at the elevation required for standard distances out to 1000 yards.

The target is calibrated for M72 .30 caliber match ammo (173 grain at 2700 FPS). Worked fine for M118 and M852 7.62mm match as well.

To use the target just set up at 50 yards, use a level to get the vertical line plumb and keep adding elevation until your POI coincides with the correct elevation on the thermometer scale. Need to get the windage correct as well - reason being not all sights and scopes raise perfectly vertical.

Unless your ammo is unusual, this target will put you in the black at 300 and 600 yards and probably even close to the center.

https://www.pistoleer.com/shooting-targets/sighting/

If you have good come-ups for your ammo, you can make your own thermometer target for starting at 100 yards.

Pistoleer is the only source for this target I'm aware of. They call it the ST-1
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“After all is said and done, successful rifle shooting on the range is nothing more than first finding a rifle and lot of ammunition which will do precisely the same thing shot after shot, and then developing the same skill in the rifleman.” ~ Capt. E. C. Crossman (Book of the Springfield)
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2017, 05:59 PM
.303Shooter .303Shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 52
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That target looks pretty cool. That'll probably be my best bet and then I can confirm the zero during the sighting period.
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