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  #1  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:59 AM
Mountain Mountain is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Default NM Front Sight Now OK for M1A in Modern Military?

I'm hearing conflicting opinions on this:

Is a M1A NM front sight now OK for use with the M1A in CMP Modern Military?

Last year at Vermont it was a DQ and pushed my M1A into Unlimited. I have a standard front sight but don't want to swap if unnecessary. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:49 AM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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What do the rules say?

http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-c...ons-rulebooks/
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  #3  
Old 08-17-2019, 06:36 PM
Mountain Mountain is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
Gee, thanks...

The rules for class B say "standard front and rear sights" then allow finer than 1 minute rear adjustment, which is not standard but Ok, that's the rules. Reason I am asking is because I have seen others quote CMP as saying NM front sights are OK because SAI M1A's are standard with that sight.

If one lives in a AWB state like I do, you don't build or buy a new AR nor M1A with a bayonet lug- it's an evil feature that in combination with one more evil feature can win you a pair of silver bracelets. So... you order the NM flash hider and sight assembly so that the rifle has only one evil feature besides the detachable mag.

Honestly, with my old eyes my scores will be as good or better with a 0.100" front sight as they will with a 0.062" front sight. I'd rather not have to buy more crap and waste time and ammo sighting in if the NM front sight is indeed OK.

On a side note, if you have an AR you can pretty much use any front sight width you want plus use a service rifle 1/4 MOA rear sight. Technically, one could use a NM rear sight on a M1A and be rules compliant. Makes zero sense to allow (expensive) 1/4 MOA rear AR sights and even more expensive rear M1A NM sights. But I digress- I just want to know if M1A NM front sights are OK or if that's a false rumor.
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  #4  
Old 08-18-2019, 10:08 PM
Headspace Headspace is offline
 
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Press Release & General Response to The Recent Changes to the Modern Military Rules

Recent changes have been made to the rules governing competition in the CMP Modern Military Match in an attempt to restore the original spirit of competition. General observation and statistical analysis revealed a trend discontinuous with the original purpose and intent of this match.
The Modern Military match was originally devised to be an inclusive category, encompassing a litany of common rifles presumably owned and underutilized by the majority of average firearms owners. Among other things, Modern Military serves to attract this shooter who may have little to no prior competitive experience and a limited arsenal at their disposal. The original intent was to have a competitive forum and a level playing field, for these commonly owned and underutilized firearms to compete. In short, Modern Military provides an avenue to competition for a shooter who might not otherwise possess the equipment to compete.
As our Service Rifle Competition rules evolved to accommodate optics, unfortunately so too did our standard Modern Military rules. In order to accommodate these optics in the Modern Military match, overall weight was addressed by necessity at the same time. With this shift we had Inadvertently created a distinct advantage for particular rifles that could now compete at a heavier weight with minimally restricted modern optics. This led to a rapid influx of rifles essentially built to a lighter weight, Service Rifle Competition specification. As a result, a significant portion of the rifles around which the Modern Military match was originally focused had been rendered obsolete and uncompetitive. It was never our intent for this match to become dominated by “match” AR’s with exorbitantly expensive optics. The 2019 rules represent an effort to correct this oversight, restoring the original intent and diversity of competition for the Standard Modern Military Match classification.
The second significant change to the 2019 rules pertains to general limitations on “accurizing”. The original general restriction on accurizing was again intended to prevent a firearm built to competition Service Rifle Specifications and limit the potential for the Modern Military Match to devolve into another equipment race. Inadvertently, this ban limited participation of the commonly available firearms which were within the match’s original design. It was brought to our attention that commonly available and inexpensive AR type rifles are sold with attributes (float tubes, alternate Sights, etc) which would prevent them from competing due to the accurizing ban. Since the 2019 reversion to the previous weight limit of 7.5 lbs (AR) will eliminate the possibility of competing with a Service Rifle therefore eliminating A2 with 20” barrels. This will promote a competition with pencil barrels and m4 clones which is inline with the original intent and spirit of the competition.
In the interest if inclusivity and simplicity of enforcement, the 2019 rules relax any additional restrictions regarding accurizing beyond the clearly defined position on optics and overall weight. 2019 revisions will also ensure that other rifles, such as the M1A which is often sold with an “NM” front sight, will be legal for competition in their commonly available configuration.

Yes. NM front sight on the Springfield M1A is legal as of 2019. See above
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2019, 09:44 AM
ceresco ceresco is offline
 
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Sadly, the intent of these changes was defeated when they allowed free float handguards on AR15s. Pencil barrels will shoot fine without a sling swivel attached to them. Additionally, an A2 barrel can make the 7.5# limit, if some care is used in building the rifle. ARs will still dominate. It does seem that NM sights are now allowed on M14 and M16 type rifles. I used an old (pinned) NM sight upper receiver on my MM AR with no problems at inspection this year. Good Shooting. ...
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:21 PM
Mountain Mountain is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headspace View Post
Press Release & General Response to The Recent Changes to the Modern Military Rules

Recent changes have been made to the rules governing competition in the CMP Modern Military Match in an attempt to restore the original spirit of competition. General observation and statistical analysis revealed a trend discontinuous with the original purpose and intent of this match.
The Modern Military match was originally devised to be an inclusive category, encompassing a litany of common rifles presumably owned and underutilized by the majority of average firearms owners. Among other things, Modern Military serves to attract this shooter who may have little to no prior competitive experience and a limited arsenal at their disposal. The original intent was to have a competitive forum and a level playing field, for these commonly owned and underutilized firearms to compete. In short, Modern Military provides an avenue to competition for a shooter who might not otherwise possess the equipment to compete.
As our Service Rifle Competition rules evolved to accommodate optics, unfortunately so too did our standard Modern Military rules. In order to accommodate these optics in the Modern Military match, overall weight was addressed by necessity at the same time. With this shift we had Inadvertently created a distinct advantage for particular rifles that could now compete at a heavier weight with minimally restricted modern optics. This led to a rapid influx of rifles essentially built to a lighter weight, Service Rifle Competition specification. As a result, a significant portion of the rifles around which the Modern Military match was originally focused had been rendered obsolete and uncompetitive. It was never our intent for this match to become dominated by “match” AR’s with exorbitantly expensive optics. The 2019 rules represent an effort to correct this oversight, restoring the original intent and diversity of competition for the Standard Modern Military Match classification.
The second significant change to the 2019 rules pertains to general limitations on “accurizing”. The original general restriction on accurizing was again intended to prevent a firearm built to competition Service Rifle Specifications and limit the potential for the Modern Military Match to devolve into another equipment race. Inadvertently, this ban limited participation of the commonly available firearms which were within the match’s original design. It was brought to our attention that commonly available and inexpensive AR type rifles are sold with attributes (float tubes, alternate Sights, etc) which would prevent them from competing due to the accurizing ban. Since the 2019 reversion to the previous weight limit of 7.5 lbs (AR) will eliminate the possibility of competing with a Service Rifle therefore eliminating A2 with 20” barrels. This will promote a competition with pencil barrels and m4 clones which is inline with the original intent and spirit of the competition.
In the interest if inclusivity and simplicity of enforcement, the 2019 rules relax any additional restrictions regarding accurizing beyond the clearly defined position on optics and overall weight. 2019 revisions will also ensure that other rifles, such as the M1A which is often sold with an “NM” front sight, will be legal for competition in their commonly available configuration.

Yes. NM front sight on the Springfield M1A is legal as of 2019. See above
THANKS!!!

I thought I had heard something to that effect. And no- it's not in the rules but if directly from the CMP I can cite that release. Thanks again!

So I'll leave my M1A alone. Via my digital fish scale it's just under 9.0 lbs. I prefer the M1A over the AR and plan to shoot it at Vermont. Last time I shot the M1A scored 287-6X. I will however bring the AR as a back up. It's ~7.3 lbs with an A2 barrel, a pinned A4 stock, and a free float handguard. If somehow both of those get bounced to Unlimited, I'm just going to shoot my scoped Service Rifle and say to hell with it...
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2019, 05:31 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceresco View Post
Sadly, the intent of these changes was defeated when they allowed free float handguards on AR15s.
I could not agree more. The story of the MM rules evolution is downright hard to comprehend.
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:41 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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OP:
The press release in question is half way down on the page I linked, Just as a reference in case you need it.
Right above "Rule Interpretations."
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  #9  
Old 08-19-2019, 07:29 PM
Mountain Mountain is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewehr43 View Post
OP:
The press release in question is half way down on the page I linked, Just as a reference in case you need it.
Right above "Rule Interpretations."
Aha...

Apologies! And yes, I may need it in case I get bounced to UMM again. Thanks!
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2019, 07:56 PM
Gewehr43 Gewehr43 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
Aha...

Apologies! And yes, I may need it in case I get bounced to UMM again. Thanks!
Yeah.... there is a lot of confusion, that's why I found the link, so you or anyone can reference it.
Take Care!
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