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Old 08-09-2010, 01:53 PM
Caribouriver Caribouriver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 166
Default Received carbines today

A July 6 order for a Rural Police and a Boltless arrived today. They both need work. I am pretty new at this so I would appreciate any suggestions as how to proceed.

The Bavarian is in better shape overall.
It has an IBM receiver and IBM barrel.
The hand guard is loose (it rattles) but the action is tight.
The muzzle gauges 3
No bayo lug

The Boltless is rougher.
It has a Quality Hardware receiver and a Rockola barrel.
The stock is cracked along the side from the mag well on up and was glued.
The hand guard is loose and the action wobbles in the stock.
The muzzle gauges 2.5
It has a bayo lug.

I am trying to figure out what to do and where to start without being penny wise and pound foolish. Any thoughts about how I should go about this would be appreciated. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2010, 02:30 PM
mar53 mar53 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 305
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Well first off, I would strip and clean and inspect. Make notes of all the parts. If these are just shooters, reassemble and you are good to go. If you are trying to restore these, then you probably need to get some books, such as War Baby, and Reisch to get a general idea of what parts are correct for what gun. You can then monitor the board here, or others and begin looking for parts you need, or make trades.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:13 PM
Caribouriver Caribouriver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 166
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Thanks Mar53. Ha Ha. I am south of you. I want decent shooters. The boltless needs a bolt for starters and probably a stock set. I can't imaging that a wobbly receiver will shoot very well. How does one determine if it is a round or flat bolt that is required? The Bavarian has a flat. And, say I got a bolt from Fulton or Orion, could I figure that t would just drop in and headspace OK?
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:21 PM
AZTrooper110 AZTrooper110 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 383
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First you will need to provide the first four digits of the serial number (some put 12345XX) so the people in the know here can tell you what date your Carbine was born.

Once that information is found, the referenced books above can give you some insight, or those same "People in the Know" can assist you.

Learning about your rifle and the markings, nuances, and history is all part of ownership. i jsut started with a Bavarian myself, and have ordered both books. The War Baby book is a huge bible of information, so try the Riesch book first. ($20 per book v. $60+ per book)

Enjoy your new additions!
__________________
August 1943 SA - The Garand bug has got me!
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  #5  
Old 08-09-2010, 04:16 PM
Tired Retired Tired Retired is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denton, Texas
Posts: 1,507
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Cabi,

Collectors are the ones worried about what parts are marked what ways and during what years. You stated you wanted to make them shooters, so here is my 4 1/2 cents worth....

To answer your questions, let's look at your desire to make them shooters. First, both flat and round bolts work and are interchangeable. The key is proper headspacing for the bolt. The question of flat vs round that people have is based on matching the carbine to the bolts used during the production period. The same goes with any particular part. The best "shooter" parts are usually the latest "type" since the parts incorporated improvements and field "lessons learned" as time went on.

One of the wonderful things about carbines is that any part - no matter who made it, how it is marked, or what type/version - is fully interchangeable with another of the same part and will work in any carbine.

As far as your stock issue, M2 (or type V) stocks are known to better shooters, even though they were introduced VERY late in WWII. Very few M-1 carbines got them as an "original" part. There are 2 key elements to shot consistency with a carbine. The first is how well the recoil plate marries to the stock and the second is having the barrel "float" in the barrel channel of the bullnose. This article explains it better than I can (start about 1/2 down on the second page):

http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf

For a shooter, I recommend that you find a good condition Springfield Armory M-2 stock. It will be marked " S A " on the left side of the barrel channel on the bullnose. They come in both walnut and birch (I prefer walnut myself).

That article I linked above also discusses the loose handguard issue you have.

As far as the action "rattling", that is probably a product of the trigger housing sitting in a loose stock. The TH being loose will not impact accuracy. That is a whole different topic. The short version is it is loose to ensure interchangeability. I good solid stock goes a long way in curing that rattle. There are other ways, but thats for later.

Hope you are able to get some useful info out of my long leacture....

Oh, clean them, take pictures of them, then go shoot them!!!

Last edited by Tired Retired; 08-09-2010 at 04:20 PM.
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2010, 04:44 PM
aj98 aj98 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SE VA
Posts: 2,666
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+1 on all the the above comments.

For "collector" purposes, many of the Bavarians have had most of the parts 'correct' for the receiver date.

Where most = everything except the stock and/or handguard, rear sight, and safety.
Of course, those are often the most expensive parts, so if you do replace, shop around

Depending on your point of view, an adjustable rear sight and flip safety are original, in that most are wartime upgrade/replacements. Depending on the serial #'s of your rifles, an adj rear may be (factory) correct.

Of the carbines I have, the Bavarians are the most accurate.
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2010, 05:56 PM
Caribouriver Caribouriver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 166
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Thanks fellas. I'm as old as the carbines so I can use and appreciate the help.. Thanks for the links Tired and Retired. The Bavarian (IBM receiver and barrel) is 3889XXX and the No-Bolt (Quality Hardware receiver and Rocl-Ola barrel) is 4674XXX. When I said the action wobbled in the stock I meant the receiver/chamber had a fait amount of "play" in the stock if you torqued the slide handle.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:21 PM
aj98 aj98 is offline
 
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Location: SE VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribouriver View Post
Thanks fellas. I'm as old as the carbines so I can use and appreciate the help.. Thanks for the links Tired and Retired. The Bavarian (IBM receiver and barrel) is 3889XXX and the No-Bolt (Quality Hardware receiver and Rocl-Ola barrel) is 4674XXX. When I said the action wobbled in the stock I meant the receiver/chamber had a fait amount of "play" in the stock if you torqued the slide handle.
My IBM is a 3.83 (Dec 43).
Given that, yours would likely be 1st quarter of 44, with an undated IBM barrel.

per reisch:
no bayo log is appropriate for your serial.
IBM changed from flip sight to adj rear sight around the 3.9 mark
and
QHC used RMC barrels (among others)
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2010, 11:06 PM
microwaveguy microwaveguy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribouriver View Post
.......... could I figure that t would just drop in and headspace OK?
It is REALLY safer to check the headspace with a set of gauges. Putting an unknown bolt into your M1 carbine without checking the headspace is just unwise and could be down right dangerous. If the bolt doesn't fully close you would have an out of battery condition. If it was able to fire in that condition it would make for a really bad day.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/safety.html

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...pace/index.asp
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2010, 04:58 PM
Caribouriver Caribouriver is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 166
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I am ordering some gauges microwaveguy. And a bolt. If that receiver was made in April of 1944 I guess it could have had either a flat or round bolt. So, suppose the bolt arrives and I check it. Is this the drill?:
Close on GO=good
Not close on NO-GO=good
Close on NO-GO=maybe bad
Not close on Field=good
Close on FIELD=unsafe
If it won't close on the GO, I guess I will have to get it reamed. But what do you do if it closes on a NO-GO but not on a FIELD
or, closes on a FIELD? Replace the barrel or keep sending away for bolts?
Thanks
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